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Will I get paid for my work or am I dreaming?
charsetndows-1252
It is my understanding that the actual fee taken by the Chapter 13 trustee in an individual Chapter 13, is determined from time to time by the OUST. The salary of the Chapter 13 trustee herself is a fixed amount, at a high civil servant salary level, but the fees taken have to include all the staff costs, rent, supplies, data services, etc. So it's a moving target, historically in the range that was mentioned 8.5-11%.
As far as an attorney getting paid outside the plan, I don't see how that squares with best efforts and feasibility; if the debtor is generating more income than the plan requires, that should go to creditors. I don't however have any direct experience on that issue, unlike the other posters; in my world, I do the extra work, file the supplemental fee app, then the debtor defaults out of the plan. Just sayin.
Jason Wallach
jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
On May 30, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Link W. Schrader wrote:
>
> The In re Lopez case I mentioned earlier discusses a maximum fee that the chapter 13 trustees can take. It said something like 97% in the 9th District maxed out. Perhaps the percentage goes down uniformly when the limit is reached. Just guessing here.
>
> Link W. Schrader, Attorney
> lschrader@schrader-law.com
> Mail: PO Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
> Office: 106 W 4th St, #308, Santa Ana, CA 92701
>
> Orange County: (714) 542-5922
> Los Angeles: (310) 413-6924 *
> San Diego: (619) 952-8342
> Facsimile: (310) 878-4158
> * Texts received at LA number only
>
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed May 30 11:13:36 2012
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Will I get paid for my work or am I dreaming?
>
>
>
> Ch 13 Trustee's fee was recently reduced to about 8.5% from over 10%. I don't recall precise numbers off the top of my head.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
charsetndows-1252
It is my understanding that the actual fee taken by the Chapter 13 trustee in an individual Chapter 13, is determined from time to time by the OUST. The salary of the Chapter 13 trustee herself is a fixed amount, at a high civil servant salary level, but the fees taken have to include all the staff costs, rent, supplies, data services, etc. So it's a moving target, historically in the range that was mentioned 8.5-11%.As far as an attorney getting paid outside the plan, I don't see how that squares with best efforts and feasibility; if the debtor is generating more income than the plan requires, that should go to creditors. I don't however have any direct experience on that issue, unlike the other posters; in my world, I do the extra work, file the supplemental fee app, then the debtor defaults out of the plan. Just sayin.
Jason Wallach
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset-ascii
Ch 13 Trustee's fee was recently reduced to about 8.5% from over 10%. I don't recall precise numbers off the top of my head.
Sent from my iPad
>
Ch 13 Trustee's fee was recently reduced to about 8.5% from over 10%. I don't recall precise numbers off the top of my head.Sent from my iPad
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Get the plan confirmed first. Then file your fee application and request that fees be paid directly to you outside of the plan. Having the debtor pay your fees outside of the plan will save the trustee's 10% cut. I've not received objections to fee payments outside of the plan from LA trustees.
If you are in Orange County, Trustee Cohen will likely object to any fees being paid outside of the plan and will cite Cohen v. Lopez (In re Lopez), 372 B.R. 40 (9th Cir. BAP 2007). Read In re Lopez. Rather than support Trustee Cohen's position this case makes clear that "... the power to make payments in Chapter 13 directly to creditors has never been in doubt." 11 U.S.C. 1326(c).
Link Schrader, Attorney
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
You'll need to file a fee application to get approval from the court to be
paid, but if you're proposing a 0% plan there's no room for attorney's fees
and you're back to an infeasibility problem. So, you'll likely seek
approval from the court and then go after your client for your fees.
You may be dreaming.....
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Alik Segal wrote:
> **
>
>
> A very large chapter 13 with 3 real properties is ready to be confirmed.
> It took an inordinate amount of work to bring it to this condition. Some
> of it will be covered by the meager $4,000 flat fee. However the work also
> included projects that will be valued by the court and paid for in addition
> to the flat fee. It is time to submit a fee application for these projects:
> 1. bringing a motion to strip IRS lien from the personal residence
> 2. bringing a motion to strip junior lien from rental house
> 3. negotiating a stipulation to to strip a junior lien from rental condo
> 4. negotiating a stipulation to cram down on the senior lien on the rental
> condo
> 5. bringing objections to 7 unsecured claims
>
> It was necessary in this zero percent case to object unsecured claims
> because half-way through the case we lost eligibility. The case was on the
> edge of eligibility when it was filed. Then one mortgage lender filed a
> proof of claim for approx. $100K more than what we reasonably expected. A
> lienstrip reduced secured claims by reducing the value of collateral, but
> that increased unsecured claims over the limit. We had to reduce unsecured
> claims by objecting to time-barred credit card claims. We succeeded and the
> case is ready for confirmation.
>
> If this case had to be refiled as a chapter 11, client would have to pay
> $20K (instead of 4K) in legal fees and the filing fee of $1,046 (instead of
> $281). In addition, the lenders would have the benefit of 1111(b) election
> and would be able to stop the cramdown.
>
> I have calculated the cost to the client and net benefit as a result of
> the work done in this case. The table below shows that the total cost for
> 4 motions/stipulations concerning lien strip or cramdown and 7 claim
> objections is $16,725. This seems like a lot, but the cost is less than
> 10% of the benefit to client and the net benefit after costs as a result
> of the work is over $246,000. The plan payment will increase by $279--less
> than 10% of the current payment--from $3,393 to $3,672. Debtors indicated
> in reference to the lienstrips and cramdowns that they could get help from
> family if they needed more money to fund the plan, so they should be able
> to afford extra $279.
>
> Part of the reason why some of the projects required a lot of work (CA SFR
> IRS lienstrip motion: $3,804, NM SFR 2nd lienstrip motion: $2,873, and NV
> Condo 1st cramdown stipulation: $3,600) is that (1) opposing counsel
> repeatedly made unreasonable requests and that (2) we had logistical
> problems, such as a disappearing appraiser, which required a change in
> strategy.
>
> The table is attached as an image:
>
> [image: Inline image 3]
>
> Will I get paid for my work or am I dreaming?
>
>
> --
> Alik Segal
> Alik.Segal@gmail.com
> 310-362-6157
> California Central District
>
>
>
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You'll need to file a fee application to get approval from the court to
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charset="US-ASCII"
Are you asking whether the court will approve it or whether the clients
have the means in the case of repaying it? If it is the first question,
if well documented it will get approved at least in large part. The
second is merely calculating whether there is enough money in the
bankruptcy estate. That's doubtful, but I think you have the financial
facts of the case.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
A very large chapter 13 with 3 real properties is ready to be confirmed.
It took an inordinate amount of work to bring it to this condition. Some
of it will be covered by the meager $4,000 flat fee. However the work also
included projects that will be valued by the court and paid for in addition
to the flat fee. It is time to submit a fee application for these projects:
1. bringing a motion to strip IRS lien from the personal residence
2. bringing a motion to strip junior lien from rental house
3. negotiating a stipulation to to strip a junior lien from rental condo
4. negotiating a stipulation to cram down on the senior lien on the rental
condo
5. bringing objections to 7 unsecured claims
It was necessary in this zero percent case to object unsecured claims
because half-way through the case we lost eligibility. The case was on the
edge of eligibility when it was filed. Then one mortgage lender filed a
proof of claim for approx. $100K more than what we reasonably expected. A
lienstrip reduced secured claims by reducing the value of collateral, but
that increased unsecured claims over the limit. We had to reduce unsecured
claims by objecting to time-barred credit card claims. We succeeded and the
case is ready for confirmation.
If this case had to be refiled as a chapter 11, client would have to pay
$20K (instead of 4K) in legal fees and the filing fee of $1,046 (instead of
$281). In addition, the lenders would have the benefit of 1111(b) election
and would be able to stop the cramdown.
I have calculated the cost to the client and net benefit as a result of the
work done in this case. The table below shows that the total cost for 4
motions/stipulations concerning lien strip or cramdown and 7 claim
objections is $16,725. This seems like a lot, but the cost is less than
10% of the benefit to client and the net benefit after costs as a result
of the work is over $246,000. The plan payment will increase by $279--less
than 10% of the current payment--from $3,393 to $3,672. Debtors indicated
in reference to the lienstrips and cramdowns that they could get help from
family if they needed more money to fund the plan, so they should be able
to afford extra $279.
Part of the reason why some of the projects required a lot of work (CA SFR
IRS lienstrip motion: $3,804, NM SFR 2nd lienstrip motion: $2,873, and NV
Condo 1st cramdown stipulation: $3,600) is that (1) opposing counsel
repeatedly made unreasonable requests and that (2) we had logistical
problems, such as a disappearing appraiser, which required a change in
strategy.
The table is attached as an image:
[image: Inline image 3]
Will I get paid for my work or am I dreaming?
Alik Segal
Alik.Segal@gmail.com
310-362-6157
California Central District
A very large chapter 13 with 3 real properties is ready to be confirmed. ome of it will be covered by the meager $4,000 flat fee. However the work also included projects that will be valued by the court and paid for in addition to the flat fee. It is time to submit a fee application for these projects:
1. bringing a motion to strip IRS lien from the personal residence2. bringing a motion to strip junior lien from rental house3. negotiating a stipulation to to strip a junior lien from rental condo
4. negotiating a stipulation to cram down on the senior lien on the rental condo5. bringing objections to 7 unsecured claimsIt was necessary in this zero percent case to object unsecured claims because half-way through the case we lost eligibility. The case was on the edge of eligibility when it was filed. Then one mortgage lender filed a proof of claim for approx. $100K more than what we reasonably expected. A lienstrip reduced secured claims by reducing the value of collateral, but that increased unsecured claims over the limit. We had to reduce unsecured claims by objecting to time-barred credit card claims. We succeeded and the case is ready for confirmation.
If this case had to be refiled as a chapter 11, client would have to pay $20K (instead of 4K) in legal fees and thefiling fee of$1,046 (instead of $281). In addition, the lenders would have the benefit of 1111(b) election and would be able to stop the cramdown.
I have calculated the cost to the client and net benefit as a result of the work done in this case. The table below shows that the total cost for 4 motions/stipulations concerning lien strip or cramdown and 7 claim objections is $16,725. This seems like a lot, but the cost is less than 10% of the benefit to client and the net benefit after costs as a result of the work is over $246,000. The plan payment will increase by $279--less than 10% of the current payment--from $3,393 to $3,672. could get help from family if they needed more money to fund the plan, so they should be able to afford extra $279.
Part of the reason why some of the projectsrequired a lot of work(CA SFR IRS lienstrip motion: $3,804,NM SFR 2nd lienstrip motion: $2,873, andNV Condo 1st cramdown stipulation: $3,600) is that (1) opposing counsel repeatedly made unreasonable requests and that (2) we had logistical problems, such as a disappearing appraiser, which required a change in strategy.
The table is attached as an image:
Will I get paid for my work or am I dreaming?-- Alik Segal
The post was migrated from Yahoo.