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Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
It's not currently exempt funds. Currently, 100k is exempt but they have
125k. In order to avoid having to pay 25k of non exempt proceeds to
creditors in a contemplated bankruptcy, they purchase an interest in real
property knowing that a trustee is unlikely to sell the property absent
appreciation due to costs involved in the sale.
If you blow it up you can see. For example, I have 200k in cash. I buy a
10% interest in my mom's house for 200k then file bankruptcy. Trustee looks
at the property. Sell it for 2,000,000, give 1,800k to mom, give 100k to
me, cost of sale at 5% is 100,000, leaves nothing for the estate.
So I can protect 100k non exempt cash by finding the right vehicle. That's
why it stinks to me. 548(a)(1)(A) does not have a "fair market value"
requirement.
As an aside, you don't even need to live there. Have 200k cash you want to
protect? Purchase a 5% interest in someone's commercial building (4m
value). If the cost of selling this property is 5%, the Estate gets nothing
so the Trustee must abandon the property.
Note: In general you only need to buy Z% of property where Z% is the
transaction costs associated with selling the property. Since the
transaction cost is equal to the amount of nonexempt cash, there is no
reason to sell anything.
I am not proficient with this stuff so please, if you file, let us know
what happens.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 7:28 PM, cdcbaa cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> I agree with Shannon. If the debtor's buy part of mom and pop's house,
> they are buying a new homestead.
>
> I cannot tell you how many boomers are selling a part of their homes to
> their kids. By doing that, the boomers are getting a fund with which to
> retire, and the kids will, when the boomers die, inherit the rest. This is
> good retirement planning, and a concurrent investment into a new homestead.
>
>
> It is a lot like the old family farm. One of the kids and the kid's
> spouse moved onto the farm, worked it with dad and mom, then took care of
> dad and mom in old age, and finally inherited the farm. The new farm is
> the family home.
>
> d
>
> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503
> 310-328-1001-voice
> [image: cid:part1.03050307.05030101@bklaw.com]
>
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com
> [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
>
>
> Because they gave fair market value for the real property interest. I
> guess I should read In re Beverly before I posted here, and I will. But
> thats my current thinking. Since its currently exempted funds, I dont
> see how its with intent to hinder delay or defraud>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 6:13 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I am not sophisticated enough to be doing these In re Beverly types of
> transactions but this one smells like a hog to me. How is it not a
> fraudulent transfer?
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Avanesian
>
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
>
> www.tilemlaw.com
>
> 818-507-6000
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:37 PM, 'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com
> [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
>
> It is not permanent, but it is indefinite as they would only relocate
> after he finds another job. Not sure why the intent matters.
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 3:21 PM
>
>
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I dont see a problem as long as the debtors have a good faith intent to
> reside in the home indefinitely.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 2:48 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have an opinion about reinvesting proceeds in a partial
> interest in a residence.
>
>
>
> Say for example the debtors sell their own house prepetition. They move
> in with their parents. The parents have equity of $500,000 in the house.
> They take a 25% interest in that property for $125,000. Thats fair market
> value. They hold the interest as tenants in common with the parents. The
> Debtors have a 25% interest and the parents 75%.
>
>
>
> That would work to preserve the homestead exemption and the amount above
> the $100,000 of actual exemption would be protected by cost of sale,
> right? Anyone see any problems?
>
>
>
> Steve Lever
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:21 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest
> exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did
> that come down and what was its name???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
It's not currently exempt funds. Currently, 100k is exempt but they have 125k. In order to avoid having to pay 25k of non exempt proceeds to creditors in a contemplated bankruptcy, they purchase an interest in real property knowing that a trustee is unlikely to sell the property absent appreciation due to costs involved in the sale.
If you blow it up you can see. For example, I have 200k in cash. I buy a 10% interest in my mom's house for 200k then file bankruptcy. Trustee looks at the property. Sell it for 2,000,000, give 1,800k to mom, give 100k to me, cost of sale at 5% is 100,000, leaves nothing for the estate.
So I can protect 100k non exempt cash by finding the right vehicle. That's why it stinks to me. 548(a)(1)(A) does not have a "fair market value" requirement.
As an aside, you don't even need to live there. Have 200k cash you want to protect? Purchase a 5% interest in someone's commercial building (4m value). If the cost of selling this property is 5%, the Estate gets nothing so the Trustee must abandon the property.
Note: In general you only need to buy Z% of property where Z% is the transaction costs associated with selling the property.Since the transaction cost is equal to the amount of nonexempt cash, there is no reason to sell anything.
I am not proficient with this stuff so please, if you file, let us know what happens.Sincerely, Michael Avanesian
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 7:28 PM, cdcbaa cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I agree with Shannon. If the debtor's buy part of mom and pop's house, they are buying a new homestead. I cannot tell you how many boomers are selling a part of their homes to their kids. By doing that, the boomers are getting a fund with which to retire, and the kids will, when the boomers die, inherit the rest. This is good retirement planning, and a concurrent investment into a new homestead.
It is a lot like the old family farm. One of the kids and the kid's spouse moved onto the farm, worked it with dad and mom, then took care of dad and mom in old age, and finally inherited the farm. The new farm is the family home.
dDennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I agree with Shannon. If the debtor's buy part of mom and pop's house, they are buying a new homestead.
I cannot tell you how many boomers are selling a part of their homes to their kids. By doing that, the boomers are getting a fund with which to retire, and the kids will, when the boomers die, inherit the rest. This is good retirement planning, and a concurrent investment into a new homestead.
It is a lot like the old family farm. One of the kids and the kid's spouse moved onto the farm, worked it with dad and mom, then took care of dad and mom in old age, and finally inherited the farm. The new farm is the family home.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> Because they gave fair market value for the real property interest. I guess I should read In re Beverly before I posted here, and I will. But thats, I dont see how its with intent to hinder delay or defraud.
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 6:13 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I am not sophisticated enough to be doing these In re Beverly types of transactions but this one smells like a hog to me. How is it not a fraudulent transfer?
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Avanesian
>
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
>
> www.tilemlaw.com
>
> 818-507-6000
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:37 PM, 'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
>
> It is not permanent, but it is indefinite as they would only relocate after he finds another job. Not sure why the intent matters.
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:21 PM
>
>
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I dont see a problem as long as the debtors have a good faith intent to reside in the home indefinitely.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:48 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have an opinion about reinvesting proceeds in a partial interest in a residence.
>
>
>
> Say for example the debtors sell their own house prepetition. They move in with their parents. The parents have equity of $500,000 in the house. They take a 25% interest in that property for $125,000. Thats fair market value. They hold the interest as tenants in common with the parents. The Debtors have a 25% interest and the parents 75%.
>
>
>
> That would work to preserve the homestead exemption and the amount above the $100,000 of actual exemption would be protected by cost of sale, right? Anyone see any problems?
>
>
>
> Steve Lever
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:21 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did that come down and what was its name???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I am not sophisticated enough to be doing these In re Beverly types of
transactions but this one smells like a hog to me. How is it not a
fraudulent transfer?
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
www.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:37 PM, 'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> It is not permanent, but it is indefinite as they would only relocate
> after he finds another job. Not sure why the intent matters.
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 3:21 PM
>
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I dont see a problem as long as the debtors have a good faith intent to
> reside in the home indefinitely.
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Shannon Picture]
> [image: Shannon A Doyle]
> [image: phone/email/website]
> [image: Email Signature]
> [image: http://pcmweb.net/devglobal/emaildev/eB ... img/fb.png]
> [image:
> http://pcmweb.net/devglobal/emaildev/eB ... witter.png]
> [image:
> http://pcmweb.net/devglobal/emaildev/eB ... google.png]
> [image:
> http://pcmweb.net/devglobal/emaildev/eB ... nkedin.png]
> [image:
> http://pcmweb.net/devglobal/emaildev/eB ... /email.png]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 2:48 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have an opinion about reinvesting proceeds in a partial
> interest in a residence.
>
>
>
> Say for example the debtors sell their own house prepetition. They move
> in with their parents. The parents have equity of $500,000 in the house.
> They take a 25% interest in that property for $125,000. Thats fair market
> value. They hold the interest as tenants in common with the parents. The
> Debtors have a 25% interest and the parents 75%.
>
>
>
> That would work to preserve the homestead exemption and the amount above
> the $100,000 of actual exemption would be protected by cost of sale,
> right? Anyone see any problems?
>
>
>
> Steve Lever
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:21 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of
> opinion!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest
> exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did
> that come down and what was its name???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
I am not sophisticated enough to be doing these In re How is it not a fraudulent transfer?
Sincerely, Michael AvanesianLaw Offices of David A. Tilemwww.tilemlaw.com818-507-6000
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:37 PM, 'Steven B. Lever' sblever@leverlaw.com [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
It is not permanent, but it is indefinite as they would only relocate after he finds another job. Not sure why the intent matters.
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:21 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
I don reside in the home indefinitely.
:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">
:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:48 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
Does anyone have an opinion about reinvesting proceeds in a partial interest in a residence.
Say for example the debtors sell their own house prepetition. They move in with their parents. The parents have equity of $500,000 in the house. They take a 25% interest in that property for $125,000. Thats fair market value. They hold the interest as tenants in common with the parents. The Debtors have a 25% interest and the parents 75%.
That would work to preserve the homestead exemption and the amount above the $100,000 of actual exemption would be protected by cost of sale, right? Anyone see any problems?
Steve Lever
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:21 AMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] Reinvesting exempt funds - need date and name of opinion!!
I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did that come down and what was its name???
Sent from my iPhone
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Does anyone have an opinion about reinvesting proceeds in a partial
interest in a residence.
Say for example the debtors sell their own house prepetition. They move
in with their parents. The parents have equity of $500,000 in the
house. They take a 25% interest in that property for $125,000. That's
fair market value. They hold the interest as tenants in common with the
parents. The Debtors have a 25% interest and the parents 75%.
That would work to preserve the homestead exemption and the amount above
the $100,000 of actual exemption would be protected by cost of sale,
right? Anyone see any problems?
Steve Lever
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
If you're referring to homestead exempt funds, the case is In re Jacobson,
676 F. 3d 1193 - Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit 2012.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
www.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Giovanni Orantes go@gobklaw.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest
> exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did
> that come down and what was its name???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
If you're referring to homestead exempt funds, the case isIn re Jacobson, 676 F. 3d 1193 - Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit 2012.Sincerely,
Michael AvanesianLaw Offices of David A. Tilemwww.ti
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did that come down and what was its name???
Sent from my iPhone
From petermlively2000@yahoo.com Mon Aug 25 10:29:52 2014
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On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:20 AM, "Giovanni Orantes go@gobklaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
I recall a recent decision came down saying the debtor must reinvest exempt funds within 6 months or lose them to thchapter 7 trustee. When did that come down and what was its name???
Sent from my iPhone
The post was migrated from Yahoo.