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cancellation of debt as income
I can work with this. Thanks.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's iPad
> On Sep 6, 2014, at 6:28 PM, "'Mark J. Markus' bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> I agree.
>
> In re Goldman, 70 F.3d 1028 (9th Cir. 1995)
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> Mailing Address Only:
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
> I agree.
>
> In re Goldman, 70 F.3d 1028 (9th Cir. 1995)
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> Mailing Address Only:
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
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> On 9/6/2014 4:16 PM, Larry Simons larry@lsimonslaw.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>> In re Goldman. Income for homestead calculation will be given the same meaning as income when determining CMI
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:24 PM, "Frank Ruggier frank@pricelawgroup.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry that I don't have the case cites handy but I believe that you look at the calendar year for the income guidelines, not the 12 months prepetition. So if you file the case this year, then you look at the income earned in all of 2014 (January 1, 2014 through December 31, 2014).
>>>
>>> Frank X. Ruggier
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM, "'Stella Havkin' havkinlaw@earthlink.net [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought of this. He was insolvent at that time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:10 PM
>>>> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as income
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My gut tells me that it counts as income, if it's COD income but I'll leave it to the expert to comment on that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to point out something you may not have considered. Under section 108, the 100k that has been forgiven is income only to the extent that assets exceed liabilities. Look at (d)(3) at the very bottom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Say this guys assets are 175k home equity. 100k is forgiven and he has 100k in other debts which will be discharged in the bk. The analysis would be:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assets: 175k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Liabilities: 200k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> L > A therefore, no income from cancellation of 100k.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your problem is this situation: Assets 175k, 100k forgiven, 60k in other debts:
>>>>
>>>> Assets: 175k
>>>>
>>>> Liabilities 160k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15k of the 100k is going to be COD income. That may put your debtor over the limit. I hope this is helpful and sorry if you already took this into consideration.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Avanesian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:01 PM, havkinlaw@earthlink.net [cdcbaa] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I need to exempt $175,000 homestead for a client who has made no money in the past 12 months. However, in December, 2013, he received almost $100,000 in 1099-C cancellation of debt income from credit cards that he did not pay. If that debt cancellation is counted, then he does not qualify for the $35,000 low income provision. Any ideas whether I have to count this as income?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stella
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
In re Goldman. Income for homestead calculation will be given the same meaning as income when determining CMI
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:24 PM, "Frank Ruggier frank@pricelawgroup.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
Sorry that I don't have the case cites handy but I believe that you look at the calendar year for the income guidelines, not the 12 months prepetition. So if you file the case this year, then you look at the income earned in all of 2014 (January 1, 2014 through December 31, 2014).
Frank X. Ruggier
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM, "'Stella Havkin' havkinlaw@earthlink.net [cdcbaa]" wrote:
I thought of this. He was insolvent at that time.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I will post my results.
Stella
-----OrigS.COM>Sent: Sep 6, 2014 4:08 PM To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as income December 2013 is when the 1099-c was issued and for income tax purposes 2013 is the year it is considered income, but your client received the benefit of the money borrowed much earlier than that. I have done no research on CCP 704.730(a)(3)(C) other than reading it, but my gut instinct is that counting canceled debt in gross income seems counterintuitive to the purposes of the exemption statute. Of course logic and common sense are regularly absent from statutes passed by our legislature.... Good luck researching the issue. Mark T. JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION. In a message dated 9/6/2014 3:26:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com writes:Agreed but I still have the issues of the cancellation of debt in December, 2013.BR>Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:24 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as incomeSorry that I don't have the case cites handy but I believe that you look at the calendar year for the income guidelines, not the 12 months prepetition. So if you file the case this year, then you look at the income earned in all of 2014 (January 1, 2014 through December 31, 2014). Frank X. RuggierSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM, "'Stella Havkin' _havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) [cdcbaa]" <_cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) > wrote:I thought of thi_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:10 PMTo: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as incomeMy gut tells me that it counts as income, if it's COD income but I'll leave it to the expert to comment on that.I wanted to point out something you may not have considered. Under section 108, the 100k that has been forgiven is income only to the extent that assets exceed liabilities. Look at (d)(3) at the very bottom.Say this guys assets are 175k home equity. 100k is forgiven and he has 100k in other debts which will be discharged in the bk. The analysis would be:Assets: 175kLiabilities: 200k L > A therefore, no income from cancellation of 100k. Your problem is this situation: Assets 175k, 100k forgiven, 60k in other debts:Assets: 175kLiabilities 160k 15k of the 100k is going to be COD income. That may put your debtor over the limit. I hope this is helpful and sorry if you already took this into consideration. Sincerely,Michael AvanesianOn Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:01 PM, _havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) [cdcbaa] <_cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) > wrote: I need to exempt $175,000 homestead for a client who has made no money in the past 12 months. However, in December, 2013, he received almost $100,000 in 1099-C cancellation of debt income from credit cards that he did not pay. If that debt cancellation is counted, then he does not qualify for the $35,000 low income provision. Any ideas whether I have to count this as income? Stella
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
December 2013 is when the 1099-c was issued and for income tax purposes
2013 is the year it is considered income, but your client received the
benefit of the money borrowed much earlier than that. I have done no research on
CCP 704.730(a)(3)(C) other than reading it, but my gut instinct is that
counting canceled debt in gross income seems counterintuitive to the purposes
of the exemption statute. Of course logic and common sense are regularlyabsent from statutes passed by our legislature.... Good luck researchingthe issue.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENTOF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE
NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THISMESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
In a message dated 9/6/2014 3:26:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com writes:
Agreed but I still have the issues of the cancellation of debt in
December, 2013.
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:24 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as income
Sorry that I don't have the case cites handy but I believe that you look
at the calendar year for the income guidelines, not the 12 months
prepetition. So if you file the case this year, then you look at the income earned in
all of 2014 (January 1, 2014 through December 31, 2014).
Frank X. Ruggier
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM, "'Stella Havkin' _havkinlaw@earthlink.net_
(mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) [cdcbaa]" wrote:
I thought of this. He was insolvent at that time.
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:10 PM
To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] cancellation of debt as income
My gut tells me that it counts as income, if it's COD income but I'll
leave it to the expert to comment on that.
I wanted to point out something you may not have considered. Under section108, the 100k that has been forgiven is income only to the extent that
assets exceed liabilities. Look at (d)(3) at the very bottom.
Say this guys assets are 175k home equity. 100k is forgiven and he has
100k in other debts which will be discharged in the bk. The analysis would be:
Assets: 175k
Liabilities: 200k
L > A therefore, no income from cancellation of 100k.
Your problem is this situation: Assets 175k, 100k forgiven, 60k in other
debts:
Assets: 175k
Liabilities 160k
15k of the 100k is going to be COD income. That may put your debtor over
the limit. I hope this is helpful and sorry if you already took this intoconsideration.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:01 PM, _havkinlaw@earthlink.net_
(mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) [cdcbaa] wrote:
I need to exempt $175,000 homestead for a client who has made no money inthe past 12 months. However, in December, 2013, he received almost
$100,000 in 1099-C cancellation of debt income from credit cards that he did not
pay. If that debt cancellation is counted, then he does not qualify for the
$35,000 low income provision. Any ideas whether I have to count this as income?
Stella
December 2013 is when the 1099-c was issued and for income tax
purposes 2013 is the year it is considered income, but your
client received the benefit of the money borrowed much earlier than
that. I have done no research on CCP 704.730(a)(3)(C) other than reading
it, but my gut instinct is that counting canceled debt in gross income seems
counterintuitive to the purposes of the exemption statute. Of course logic
and common sense are regularly absent from statutes passed by our
legislature.... Good luck researching the issue.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY
THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED
TO BE PRIVILEGED BY LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE,
DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE
THIS MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
In a message dated 9/6/2014 3:26:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com writes:
Agreed
but I still have the issues of the cancellation of debt in December,
2013.
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014
3:24 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa]
cancellation of debt as income
Sorry that I don't have the case cites handy but I believe
that you look at the calendar year for the income guidelines, not the 12 months prepetition. So if you file the case this year, then you look at the
income earned in all of 2014 (January 1, 2014 through December 31,
2014).
Frank X. RuggierSent from my
iPhone
On Sep 6, 2014, at 3:15 PM,
"'Stella Havkin' havkinlaw@earthlink.net [cdcbaa]"
<
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
My gut tells me that it counts as income, if it's COD income but I'll leave
it to the expert to comment on that.
I wanted to point out something you may not have considered. Under section
108, the 100k that has been forgiven is income only to the extent that
assets exceed liabilities. Look at (d)(3) at the very bottom.
Say this guys assets are 175k home equity. 100k is forgiven and he has 100k
in other debts which will be discharged in the bk. The analysis would be:
Assets: 175k
Liabilities: 200k
L > A therefore, no income from cancellation of 100k.
Your problem is this situation: Assets 175k, 100k forgiven, 60k in other
debts:
Assets: 175k
Liabilities 160k
15k of the 100k is going to be COD income. That may put your debtor over
the limit. I hope this is helpful and sorry if you already took this into
consideration.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:01 PM, havkinlaw@earthlink.net [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> I need to exempt $175,000 homestead for a client who has made no money in
> the past 12 months. However, in December, 2013, he received almost
> $100,000 in 1099-C cancellation of debt income from credit cards that he
> did not pay. If that debt cancellation is counted, then he does not
> qualify for the $35,000 low income provision. Any ideas whether I have to
> count this as income?
>
>
> Stella
>
>
>
My gut tells me that it counts
The post was migrated from Yahoo.