.jpg)
Do I Need to Reopen Case for Dischargeability action
I completely agree with Dennis.
I wanted to add that the reason Beezley is not dispositive is because it
deals with 523(a)(3).
This assessment would be nondischargeable for other reasons. Specifically
by 523(a)(1) which applies to taxes that are not yet assessed but are
assessable under applicable law. See 507(a)(8)(A)(iii).
The reason understanding this is important is because I hear, "oh that's
discharged because Beezley says it is discharged." It's actually Jon's
Golden Rule #5, EVERYTHING is discharged unless exempted by 523*. Beezley
says 523(a)(3) does not apply to a case where a bar date was not set,
therefore, in no asset cases, 523(a)(3) does not apply. Consequently, in
those cases, the debt is discharged by 524 assuming it was not one of (2),
(4) or (6).
Here, the creditor might say fine, 523(a)(3) doesn't apply, but (a)(1)
does! So it was not dischargeable in the bankruptcy and therefore, not
discharged by 524.
The star is there because I realize there are about 20 other federal laws
that make certain things nondischargeable.
Sincerely,
*Michael Avanesian, Esq. *
Simon Resnik Hayes, LLP
15233 Ventura Blvd., Suite 250
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
Tel: 818.783.6251 | Cel: 818.817.1725
*Confidentiality**: *This electronic transmission and its contents are
legally privileged and confidential information and intended solely for the
use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
copying or other use of this message and its contents is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please reply
to us immediately and delete this message from your directory.
*IRS Circular 230 Disclosure:* To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, please be advised that any U.S. federal tax advice
contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
or written to be used or relied upon, and cannot be used or relied upon,
for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code,
or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed herein.
On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:02 PM, cdcbaa cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> No, Beezley does not apply. Unassessed, but assessable taxes are an
> exception to discharge.
>
> Dennis
>
> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503
> 310-328-1001-voice
> [image: cid:part1.03050307.05030101@bklaw.com]
>
> On May 14, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Chris Gautschi sanschromo@yahoo.com [cdcbaa]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Doesn't Beezley still apply to discharge an unlisted unscheduled creditor
> even if FTB so long as there is no fraud claim? Can you send a copy of
> Beezley with a letter to the BK unit at FTB and have them reply they agree
> the tax has been discharged?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2015 1:39 PM, "vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa]" cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Client receives ch 7 discharge in no asset case in 2012. Doesn't know
> he owes taxes to FTB (which are clearly dischargeable), so he doesn't list
> FTB on Schedules. Two years later, FTB does an assessment and client first
> learns he owes FTB taxes.
>
> I want to file dischargeability action against FTB. I have not been able
> to figure out if I need to reopen the case to file the dischargeability
> action or not. Do I need to reopen before filing dischargeability action?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> Certified Family Law Specialist
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Family Law, Bankruptcy and Estate Planning
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
> 325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150 23929 Valencia Blvd.,
> Suite 411
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799 Valencia, CA 91355
> (805) 446-6262 Phone (661) 222-2922 Phone
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
I completely agree with Dennis.I wanted to add that the reason Beezley is not dispositive is because it deals with 523(a)(3).This assessment would be nondischargeable for other reasons. Specifically by 523(a)(1) which applies to taxes that are not yet assessed but are assessable under applicable law. See 507(a)(8)(A)(iii).The reason understanding this is important is because I hear, "oh that's discharged because
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I'm with John on this one (easy to be with John on tax issues!)
Since it appears from your statements that the taxes are all on account of
an assessment, they are all nondischargeable.
My understanding of how it works is the following: If your client owed the
taxes but forgot to list them, then those taxes are dischargeable, fine. If
the assessment found new, additional taxes, then to the extent those new
taxes were "found," they are nondischargeable. If all the taxes now owed
are from an assessment, then all of it is nondischargeable.
Sincerely,
*Michael Avanesian, Esq. *
Simon Resnik Hayes, LLP
15233 Ventura Blvd., Suite 250
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
Tel: 818.783.6251 | Cel: 818.817.1725
*Confidentiality**: *This electronic transmission and its contents are
legally privileged and confidential information and intended solely for the
use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
copying or other use of this message and its contents is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please reply
to us immediately and delete this message from your directory.
*IRS Circular 230 Disclosure:* To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, please be advised that any U.S. federal tax advice
contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
or written to be used or relied upon, and cannot be used or relied upon,
for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code,
or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed herein.
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 3:33 PM, John Faucher j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> If the assessment is after the discharge, I don't see how the taxes are
> dischargeable. Under 507a8Aiii, taxes that were not assessed as of the
> petition date, but assessable after the petition date, are priority taxes;
> and priority taxes listed under 507a8 are not dischargeable under 523a1A.
> - John D. Faucher
> 818/889-8080
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2015 3:25 PM, "'Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.'
> vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks. The FTB assessment was two years after the discharge.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> Certified Family Law Specialist
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Family Law, Bankruptcy and Estate Planning
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
> 325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150 23929 Valencia Blvd., Suite
> 411
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799 Valencia, CA 91355
> (805) 446-6262 Phone (661) 222-2922 Phone
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
>
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
> error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and
> all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
> Thank you.
>
> *A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!*
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 2:42 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Do I Need to Reopen Case for Dischargeability
> action after Discharge?
>
>
> Yes, you must file a Motion to Reopen the case but pursuant to FRBP
> 4007(b) no fee is required.
>
> However, be very careful (Rule 9011 careful) because if the FTB hadn't
> assessed the taxes sufficiently far prepetition, they were not
> dischargeable. You can order the relevant details from their special
> procedures unit via fax at (916)-845-9799.
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> *Mailing Address Only:*
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
> On 5/14/2015 1:39 PM, vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
> Client receives ch 7 discharge in no asset case in 2012. Doesn't know he
> owes taxes to FTB (which are clearly dischargeable), so he doesn't list FTB
> on Schedules. Two years later, FTB does an assessment and client first
> learns he owes FTB taxes.
>
> I want to file dischargeability action against FTB. I have not been able
> to figure out if I need to reopen the case to file the dischargeability
> action or not. Do I need to reopen before filing dischargeability action?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> Certified Family Law Specialist
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
> Family Law, Bankruptcy and Estate Planning
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
> 325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150 23929 Valencia Blvd., Suite
> 411
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799 Valencia, CA 91355
> (805) 446-6262 Phone (661) 222-2922 Phone
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm with John on this one (easy to be with John on tax issues!)Since it appears from your statements that the taxes are all on account of an assessment, they are all nondischargeable.My understanding of how it works is the following: If your client owed the taxes but forgot to list them, then those taxes are dischargeable, fine. If the assessment found new, additional taxes, then to the extent those new taxes were "found," they are nondischargeable. If all the taxes now owed are from an assessment, then all of it is nondischargeable.Sincerely,
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Reply-To: Chris Gautschi
X-Original-Return-Path: Chris Gautschi
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Doesn't Beezley still apply to discharge an unlisted unscheduled creditor even if FTB so long as there is no fraud claim? Can you send a copy of Beezley with a letter to the BK unit at FTB and have them reply they agree the tax has been discharged?
On Thursday, May 14, 2015 1:39 PM, "vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
Client receives ch 7 discharge in no asset casein 2012. Doesn't know he owes taxes to FTB (which are clearly dischargeable), so he doesn't list FTB on Schedules. Two years later, FTB does an assessment and client first learns he owes FTB taxes.
I want to file dischargeability action against FTB. I have not been able to figure out if I need to reopen the case to file the dischargeability action or not. Do I need to reopen before filing dischargeability action?
Thanks.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.CertifiedFamily Law SpecialistCaliforniaState Bar Board of Legal SpecializationFamily Law,Bankruptcy and Estate PlanningLaw Offices ofVernon L. Ellicott325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150d Oaks,CA 91360-7799) 446-6264Fax
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
X-Original-Return-Path: Chris Gautschi
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Doesn't Beezley still apply to discharge an unlisted unscheduled creditor even if FTB so long as there is no fraud claim? Can you send a copy of Beezley with a letter to the BK unit at FTB and have them reply they agree the tax has been discharged?
On Thursday, May 14, 2015 1:39 PM, "vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
Client receives ch 7 discharge in no asset casein 2012. Doesn't know he owes taxes to FTB (which are clearly dischargeable), so he doesn't list FTB on Schedules. Two years later, FTB does an assessment and client first learns he owes FTB taxes.
I want to file dischargeability action against FTB. I have not been able to figure out if I need to reopen the case to file the dischargeability action or not. Do I need to reopen before filing dischargeability action?
Thanks.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.CertifiedFamily Law SpecialistCaliforniaState Bar Board of Legal SpecializationFamily Law,Bankruptcy and Estate PlanningLaw Offices ofVernon L. Ellicott325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150d Oaks,CA 91360-7799) 446-6264Fax
The post was migrated from Yahoo.