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Consumer not able to open cking acct.
charset="windows-1251"
I need to efile a Chapter 11 case this evening. I need advice- ABC, LLC
owns vacant land. For some reason the first Trust Deed is in favor of ABC,
a California Corporation (There is no such entity) instead of ABC, LLC. I
have not seen the loan documents. I need to stop the Trustees Sale
tomorrow morning. I will file on behalf of the entity that owns the land,
ABC, LLC. That will invoke the automatic stay and stop the sale, correct?
I made the argument that the loan was signed by a non-entity and therefore
this loan is unsecured. Any ideas?
Thanks
Nicholas S. Nassif, Esq.
LAW OFFICES OF NICHOLAS S. NASSIF
3055 WILSHIRE BLVD.
SUITE 900
LOS ANGELES, CA 90010
TELEPHONE- 213-736-1899
FAX- 213-736-5656
WEB- www.nassif.com
E-MAIL- nsnassif@pacbell.net
Larry Simons
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:25 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to open cking acct.
I've always thought that the continued reporting of a debtor on chex systems
could (and I stress could) be a violation of the discharge injunction in
that the member bank continues to report on the debt even though the debtor
no longer has a legal obligation to pay on it. Perhaps if one of us has a
case filed before the right judge (i.e. Bufford), an appropriate motion
against the bank could be brought.
_____
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I recently did a bankruptcy where it took a long time to get the info together. When I reinterviewed by client, I forgot and it wasn't mentioned that my client had an Overdraft of $551.
After she filed, she went to open a new account at a new bank, and couldn't because of ChexSystems.
Not knowing any better I sent a letter of representation, and notice of violation of stay.
I received the attached letter back in a few days, i.e., the information had been removed from my client's file.
Since then I started doing what Lou suggests, I automatically notify them.
Marvin Mann
2706 Artesia Blvd A
Redondo Beach, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
ChexSystems Victims
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.BLClaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
A few months ago I began giving each of the three credit bureaus and each of the two check reporting services, ChexSytems and Telecheck, notice of the bankruptcy filing, so that they have actual notice. My intent is to at some point conduct an audit of clients who have continuing credit reporting issues or issues such as those discussed in opening new accounts. It seems to me that the argument can be made, especially where substantially all institutions subscribe to the systems, that there is anti-trust issues (I agree with David) or at least a concerted effort to circumvent the discharge.
It seems that if there is an agreement to remove adverse reporting in exchange for payment of the debt, a case may be made. So, have the client send a check that is specially endorsed on the back to reference an accompanying letter that states the check is sent in consideration for removal from ChexSystems or Telecheck. Keep a copy of the front and back of check along with the letter and proof of mailing (just like a Post Petition Preconfirmation Mortgage Declaration would require). When the check is negotiated have the client get a copy of the check from the bank from which it is issued. Of course, if a check cannot be sent, send a check from your account on behalf of the client, stating in the letter that you are sending the check on behalf of your client because they cannot open an account. Also, state the reporting is disputed because of the discharge. Follow same procedure.
When a copy of the check comes back, make demand upon the two systems to remove the adverse reporting. Specially endorsed checks that are duly negotiated subject to a dispute and letter of explanation may be enforced against the payee under the Commercial Code. I have not had an opportunity to test out the theory, but I see no reason why it should not work. Time will tell!!
Lou
wrote:
>
> I have had several clients on the system over the years. Even if the "debt" is repaid, it will still be reported, the reporting bank claiming that it has a duty to protect other institutions.
>
>
>
> Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
> LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
> 21031 Ventura Boulevard, 12th Floor
> Woodland Hills, California 91364-2203
> Telephone: (818) 226-1205
> Facsimile: (818) 226-1213
>
>
>
>
> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:25:09 PM
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to open cking acct.
>
>
> I've always thought that the continued reporting of a
> debtor on chex systems could (and I stress could) be a violation of the
> discharge injunction in that the member bank continues to report on the debt
> even though the debtor no longer has a legal obligation to pay on
> it. Perhaps if one of us has a case filed before the right judge
> (i.e. Bufford), an appropriate motion against the bank could be
> brought.
>
>
> ________________________________
> [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Green
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:13 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to open
> cking acct.
>
>
> Not my first experience, but I
> couldnt remember the name which inhibited my research.
> I have been researching this
> further since my post. The name was needed for the research. They
> are considered a credit reporting agency under the FCRA (Fair Credit Reporting
> Act). So far all reported cases agree. As my client does owe the
> reporting bank, I dont believe there is any FCRA violation.
> In anticipation of filing, she
> was attempting to move her banking to non-creditor institutions when she ran
> into the problem. She actually tried a small credit union, but was only allowed
> to open an acct with in bank transactions only. She is going to try to pay off
> the reporting bank, to which she owes very little, in exchange for removal from
> the List.
> Thanks to all for your
> responses.
> Pat
> Patrick T. Green,
> Esq.
> Fitzgerald &
> Green
> Attorneys at
> Law
> 1010 E. Union
> Street
> Suite 206
> Pasadena, CA
> 91106
> Tel:
> 626-449-8433
> Fax:
> 626-449-0565
> pat@fitzgreenlaw. com
> From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of David A.
> Tilem
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:57 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to
> open cking acct.
> As Hale has said, this is the CHEX system. It has
> been in existence for about 15-20 years. I'm surprised this is your first
> experience with it. The system began with an informal agreement between> and among a certain number of large banks to "blackball" anyone who bounced a
> check or filed bankruptcy with a ready-reserve account balance. The system
> has since expanded to include almost all banks and Credit Unions, and they have
> expanded the reach by asking people to pay their credit cards "automatically"
> from their checking accounts. When credit cards are not paid, they "pay"> the card using the ready-reserve account and, well, you can guess the
> rest.
> The system arguably violates anti-trust laws and is
> anti-competitive. It is also bad for the economy because it precludes a> fresh start. Arguably one cannot participate in the modern economy absent
> any bank relationship. It is also bad for the govt because people who
> don't have bank accounts tend not to pay income taxes and live on a cash> basis. In short, this system is bad for everyone.
> The system appears to be completely unregulated.
> It is not covered by the FDCPA or a bankruptcy discharge. Banks simply
> argue that they don't have to do business with anyone they don't like. Of
> course when all of them get together and say the same thing, it's probably a
> violation of antitrust laws, but which one of us wants to take on that
> battle?
> One work-around: have your client form a 1 member LLC,
> get a new tax ID number and open the account number for the LLC. Another> is to have your client open new accounts at a new bank before the bankruptcy
> case is filed, but some banks are now looking to see if their new customers get
> listed on CHEX within a short period after new accounts are opened. I
> have had clients see their new accounts closed and their deposits
> refunded. This is a huge consumer problem which no one seems to have
> noticed and it has been growing for years.
> David A.
> Tilem
> Certified Bankruptcy
> Specialist*
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
> (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201,
> Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax:
> 818-507-6800
> * Bankruptcy specialist
> cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal Specialization.
> Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer.
> Bd. of Certification
> -----Original
> Message-----
> [mailto:cdcbaa@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Green
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:19 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to
> open cking acct.
> Financial institutions have some list they put consumers on
> that restricts them from opening cking accts and engaging in other banking
> activities. They do this based on the consumer writing hot checks or
> some other bad act.
> What is the name of this list and what is the source of their
> authority, if any, to do so?
> TIA
>
>
>
> Pat
> Patrick T. Green, Esq.
> Fitzgerald & Green
> Attorneys at Law
> 1010 E. Union Street
> Suite 206
> Pasadena, CA 91106
> Tel: 626-449-8433
> Fax: 626-449-0565
> pat@fitzgreenlaw. com
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="windows-1251"
I've always thought that the continued reporting of a debtor on chex systems
could (and I stress could) be a violation of the discharge injunction in
that the member bank continues to report on the debt even though the debtor
no longer has a legal obligation to pay on it. Perhaps if one of us has a
case filed before the right judge (i.e. Bufford), an appropriate motion
against the bank could be brought.
_____
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Not my first experience, but I couldnt remember the name which inhibited my
research.
I have been researching this further since my post. The name was needed for
the research. They are considered a credit reporting agency under the FCRA
(Fair Credit Reporting Act). So far all reported cases agree. As my client
does owe the reporting bank, I dont believe there is any FCRA violation.
In anticipation of filing, she was attempting to move her banking to
non-creditor institutions when she ran into the problem. She actually tried
a small credit union, but was only allowed to open an acct with in bank
transactions only. She is going to try to pay off the reporting bank, to
which she owes very little, in exchange for removal from the List.
Thanks to all for your responses.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green
Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street
Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="windows-1251"
As Hale has said, this is the CHEX system. It has been in existence for
about 15-20 years. I'm surprised this is your first experience with it.
The system began with an informal agreement between and among a certain
number of large banks to "blackball" anyone who bounced a check or filed
bankruptcy with a ready-reserve account balance. The system has since
expanded to include almost all banks and Credit Unions, and they have
expanded the reach by asking people to pay their credit cards
"automatically" from their checking accounts. When credit cards are not
paid, they "pay" the card using the ready-reserve account and, well, you can
guess the rest.
The system arguably violates anti-trust laws and is anti-competitive. It is
also bad for the economy because it precludes a fresh start. Arguably one
cannot participate in the modern economy absent any bank relationship. It
is also bad for the govt because people who don't have bank accounts tend
not to pay income taxes and live on a cash basis. In short, this system is
bad for everyone.
The system appears to be completely unregulated. It is not covered by the
FDCPA or a bankruptcy discharge. Banks simply argue that they don't have to
do business with anyone they don't like. Of course when all of them get
together and say the same thing, it's probably a violation of antitrust
laws, but which one of us wants to take on that battle?
One work-around: have your client form a 1 member LLC, get a new tax ID
number and open the account number for the LLC. Another is to have your
client open new accounts at a new bank before the bankruptcy case is filed,
but some banks are now looking to see if their new customers get listed on
CHEX within a short period after new accounts are opened. I have had
clients see their new accounts closed and their deposits refunded. This is
a huge consumer problem which no one seems to have noticed and it has been
growing for years.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Patrick Green
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:19 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Consumer not able to open cking acct.
Financial institutions have some list they put consumers on that restricts
them from opening cking accts and engaging in other banking activities.
They do this based on the consumer writing hot checks or some other bad act.
What is the name of this list and what is the source of their authority, if
any, to do so?
TIA
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green
Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street
Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
charset="windows-1251"
Message
As Hale has said, this is
the CHEX system. It has been in existence for about 15-20 years. I'm
surprised this is your first experience with it. The system began with an
informal agreement between and among a certain number of large banks to
"blackball" anyone who bounced a check or filed bankruptcy with a ready-reserve
account balance. The system has since expanded to include almost all banks
and Credit Unions, and they have expanded the reach by asking people to paytheir credit cards "automatically" from their checking accounts. Whencredit cards are not paid, they "pay" the card using the ready-reserve account
and, well, you can guess the rest.
The system arguably
violates anti-trust laws and is anti-competitive. It is also bad for the
economy because it precludes a fresh start. Arguably one cannot
participate in the modern economy absent any bank relationship. It is also
bad for the govt because people who don't have bank accounts tend not to pay
income taxes and live on a cash basis. In short, this system is bad for
everyone.
The system appears to be
completely unregulated. It is not covered by the FDCPA or a bankruptcy
discharge. Banks simply argue that they don't have to do business with
anyone they don't like. Of course when all of them get together and say
the same thing, it's probably a violation of antitrust laws, but which one of us
wants to take on that battle?
One work-around: have your
client form a 1 member LLC, get a new tax ID number and open the account number
for the LLC. Another is to have your client open new accounts at a new
bank before the bankruptcy case is filed, but some banks are now looking to see
if their new customers get listed on CHEX within a short period after new
accounts are opened. I have had clients see their new accounts closed and
their deposits refunded. This is a huge consumer problem which no oneseems to have noticed and it has been growing for years.
David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I agree with Hale's posting. However I have had clients find banks who would let them open accounts even after they were turned down by many others. Small banks and credit unions are a better option.
James R. Selth
Weintraub & Selth, APC
12121 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1300
Los Angeles, California 90025
Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE TRANSMISSION AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN-E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Financial institutions have some list they put consumers on that restricts
them from opening cking accts and engaging in other banking activities.
They do this based on the consumer writing hot checks or some other bad act.
What is the name of this list and what is the source of their authority, if
any, to do so?
TIA
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green
Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street
Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.