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real estate agent means test
Thanks for the info. He has a house which is in arrears so the $15K
will go to pay past due payments.
Marge Norman
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:49:17 -0800
"David A. Tilem" wrote:
> And don't forget to schedule commission as if it was an account
>receiveable
> - on Schedule B. Do not include the amount of the commission on
>Schedule I
> or the means test UNTIL IT IS ACTUALLY RECEIVED.
>
>
> David A. Tilem
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
>
> * Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
> Specialization.
> Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of
>Certification
> -----Original Message-----
>Behalf Of
> Dennis McGoldrick
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] real estate agent means test
>
>
>
>
>
> Margaret:
>
> if house with equity and need 704's, hold off*.
>
> if no house and can use the 703's, exempt the contingent commission.
>
> Be sure to advise client 703's are under constitutional attack, and
>have
> them sign something acknowledging if a case is decided on/before the
>60 days
> to object to exemptions runs (and/or activist trustee files an
>objection to
> keep the asset alive), the debtor may lose the commisson anyway.
> Debtor's
> decision to take or not take this risk.
>
>
> dennis
>
> *keep in mind under Fitzsimons, if there is more work to be done
> postpetition to close the escrow, the value of the commission which
>is
> property of the estate will be proportioned. It is hard to "time" a
> realtors petition, but if four more months go by and no other escrow
>is
> closed, the $15000 won't make them fail the means test, anyway.
> Also, you
> can file in the month the commission is received and not count it in
>the
> means test. If the debtor is behind on house payments, has a 401k
>loan to
> repay, etc., the $15k can quickly be consumed. Make sure any checks
>the
> debtors send out clear before the case is filed, on audit the
>auditors
> demand to see bank statements and claim a filing where the debtor's
>tell you
> the balance on their checkbook register is a material mistatement,
>if there
> were funds in the bank (regardless of there being subject to
>outstanding
> checks).
>
> dennis
>
> --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Margaret Norman wrote:
>
>
> Subject: [cdcbaa] real estate agent means test
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 2:54 PM
>
>
> .
>
> d12/stime34153082/nc125321/nc248642/nc322131>
>
>
>
>
Margaret Norman, Attorney
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. #355
Manhattan Beach, Ca. 90266
310-376-7873
Fax-310-798-9846
WWW:Margeslaw.com
Circular 230: To assure complaince with Treasury Dept regs., be
informed that any advice contained in this communication and/or
attachments was not written and cannot be used for the purpose of
avoiding any federal tax penalties that may be imposed on taxpayer.
The advice and/or suggestions may not be used in connection with
promoting, marketing, or recommending to any person any transaction or
matter mentioned herein. All opinions are for purposes of discussion
on this forum only.
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charset="windows-1251"
And don't forget to schedule commission as if it was an account receiveable
- on Schedule B. Do not include the amount of the commission on Schedule I
or the means test UNTIL IT IS ACTUALLY RECEIVED.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Dennis McGoldrick
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:48 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] real estate agent means test
Margaret:
if house with equity and need 704's, hold off*.
if no house and can use the 703's, exempt the contingent commission.
Be sure to advise client 703's are under constitutional attack, and have
them sign something acknowledging if a case is decided on/before the 60 days
to object to exemptions runs (and/or activist trustee files an objection to
keep the asset alive), the debtor may lose the commisson anyway. Debtor's
decision to take or not take this risk.
dennis
*keep in mind under Fitzsimons, if there is more work to be done
postpetition to close the escrow, the value of the commission which is
property of the estate will be proportioned. It is hard to "time" a
realtors petition, but if four more months go by and no other escrow is
closed, the $15000 won't make them fail the means test, anyway. Also, you
can file in the month the commission is received and not count it in the
means test. If the debtor is behind on house payments, has a 401k loan to
repay, etc., the $15k can quickly be consumed. Make sure any checks the
debtors send out clear before the case is filed, on audit the auditors
demand to see bank statements and claim a filing where the debtor's tell you
the balance on their checkbook register is a material mistatement, if there
were funds in the bank (regardless of there being subject to outstanding
checks).
dennis
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Margaret:
if house with equity and need 704's, hold off*.
if no house and can use the 703's, exempt the contingent commission.
Be sure to advise client 703's are under constitutional attack, and have them sign something acknowledging if a case is decided on/before the 60 days to object to exemptions runs (and/or activist trustee files an objection to keep the asset alive), the debtor may lose the commisson anyway. Debtor's decision to take or not take this risk.
dennis
*keep in mind under Fitzsimons, if there is more work to be done postpetition to close the escrow, the value of the commission which is property of the estate will be proportioned. It is hard to "time" a realtors petition, but if four more months go by and no other escrow is closed, the $15000 won't make them fail the means test, anyway. Also, you can file in the month the commission is received and not count it in the means test. If the debtor is behind on house payments, has a 401k loan to repay, etc., the $15k can quickly be consumed. Make sure any checks the debtors send out clear before the case is filed, on audit the auditors demand to see bank statements and claim a filing where the debtor's tell you the balance on their checkbook register is a material mistatement, if there were funds in the bank (regardless of there being subject to outstanding checks).
dennis
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The commission in escrow is a receivable and if not exempted, it can be administered by the trustee.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:54:39
To:
Subject: [cdcbaa] real estate agent means test
Am filing Ch 7 for real estate agent. During all of 2008 he only
earned $35,000 (two commissions) which were earned in the last two
months. If we file now, he passes the means test. But he has a
commission of $15,000 in escrow that may close in the next month. Is
there a problem? Its also true that he has expenses.
Margaret Norman, Attorney
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. #355
Manhattan Beach, Ca. 90266
310-376-7873
Fax-310-798-9846
WWW:Margeslaw.com
This mail was scanned by BitDefender
For more information please visit http://www.bitdefender.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Am filing Ch 7 for real estate agent. During all of 2008 he only
earned $35,000 (two commissions) which were earned in the last two
months. If we file now, he passes the means test. But he has a
commission of $15,000 in escrow that may close in the next month. Is
there a problem? Its also true that he has expenses.
Margaret Norman, Attorney
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. #355
Manhattan Beach, Ca. 90266
310-376-7873
Fax-310-798-9846
WWW:Margeslaw.com
This mail was scanned by BitDefender
For more information please visit http://www.bitdefender.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.