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Joint owners on property
charsetndows-1252
I would add to Pat and Dennis' comments that transferring the property to the woman before filing Chapter 7 is a bad idea, since it will put the Chapter 7 Trustee in a difficult position, deciding between pursuing a fraudulent transfer action of a heavily encumbered property against a Chapter 13 debtor; and ignoring a blatant fraudulent transfer. Just file the Chapter 7 and the man walks away (subject to him having other non-exempt assets).
Having said that, there may be a conflict in representing both woman and man....
Jason
Jason Wallach
jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
On Dec 27, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Dennis wrote:
>
> The 7 for him will discharge the notes as to him. Secured lien is only a lien on property, otherwise debtor is a slave.
>
> Consider in personam and in rem two split personalties. When in personam walks away with a discharge, personal liability is gone.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 9:30 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Nate: His personal liability is based on his signing the promissory notes. Transferring the property will not change that.
>> Pat Green
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:24:16 -0800 (PST)
>> To: cdcbaa
>> ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [cdcbaa] Joint owners on property
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> Here is the scenario:
>>
>> Man and woman own property together and have lived with each other for many years but never got married. Now, they may separate. Both are on title and both on loans to 2nd and 3rd TD's, however, man is not on 1st TD. Ch.13 filed for woman only; LAM Motion granted as to 2nd and 3rd TD. However, case gets dismissed for missing plan payments.
>>
>> I plan on filing again for the woman. However, the man would still be responsible for the 2nd and 3rd TD's even if I strip the lien in her case. If I file a Chapter 7 for him, it still won't get rid of the liability as to the 2nd and 3rd. being secured as to him. That is if I'm not mistaken.
>>
>> My idea (that someone told me to do) was the following:
>>
>> 1. Prior to her re-filing her Chapter 13, have him transfer his interest to the property to her; file her Chapter 13 and then file a Chapter 7 for him.
>>
>> Any thoughts or ideas?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nate Berneman
>>
>>
>
>
charsetndows-1252
I would add to Pat and Dennis' comments that transferring the property to the woman before filing Chapter 7 is a bad idea, since it will put the Chapter 7 Trustee in a difficult position, deciding between pursuing a fraudulent transfer action of a heavily encumbered property against a Chapter 13 debtor; and ignoring a blatant fraudulent transfer. Just file the Chapter 7 and the man walks away (subject to him having other non-exempt assets). Having said that, there may be a conflict in representing both woman and man....Jason
Jason Wallach
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The 7 for him will discharge the notes as to him. Secured lien is only a lien on property, otherwise debtor is a slave.
Consider in personam and in rem two split personalties. When in personam walks away with a discharge, personal liability is gone.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 14, 2011, at 9:30 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
> Nate: His personal liability is based on his signing the promissory notes. Transferring the property will not change that.
> Pat Green
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:24:16 -0800 (PST)
> To: cdcbaa
> ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Joint owners on property
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Here is the scenario:
>
> Man and woman own property together and have lived with each other for many years but never got married. Now, they may separate. Both are on title and both on loans to 2nd and 3rd TD's, however, man is not on 1st TD. Ch.13 filed for woman only; LAM Motion granted as to 2nd and 3rd TD. However, case gets dismissed for missing plan payments.
>
> I plan on filing again for the woman. However, the man would still be responsible for the 2nd and 3rd TD's even if I strip the lien in her case. If I file a Chapter 7 for him, it still won't get rid of the liability as to the 2nd and 3rd. being secured as to him. That is if I'm not mistaken.
>
> My idea (that someone told me to do) was the following:
>
> 1. Prior to her re-filing her Chapter 13, have him transfer his interest to the property to her; file her Chapter 13 and then file a Chapter 7 for him.
>
> Any thoughts or ideas?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Nate Berneman
>
The 7 for him will discharge the notes as to him. Secured lien is only a lien on property, otherwise debtor is a slave. Consider in personam and in rem two split personalties. When in personam walks away with a discharge, personal liability is gone. Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 14, 2011, at 9:30 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
Nate: His personal liability is based on his signing the promissory notes. Transferring the property will not change that.Pat GreenSent eman <nathanberneman@yahoo.com>
Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:24:16 -0800 (PST)To: cdcbaa<cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Joint owners on property
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
That was my thinking as well. However, what about him just filing his own Chapter 7 and surrendering the property as to him?
Nate Berneman
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Joint owners on property
Nate: His personal liability is based on his signing the promissory notes. Transferring the property will not change that.
Pat Green
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello Everyone,
Here is the scenario:
Man and woman own property together and have lived with each other for many years but never got married. Now, they may separate. Both are on title and both on loans to 2nd and 3rd TD's, however, man is not on 1st TD. However, case gets dismissed for missing plan payments.
I plan on filing again for the woman. However, the man would still be responsible for the 2nd and 3rd TD's even if I strip the lien in her case. s to the 2nd and 3rd. being secured as to him. That is if I'm not mistaken.
My idea (that someone told me to do) was the following:
1. Prior to her re-filing her Chapter 13, have him transfer his interest to the property to her; file her Chapter 13 and then file a Chapter 7 for him.
Any thoughts or ideas?
Thank you,
Nate Berneman
The post was migrated from Yahoo.