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IRC Sect. 529 Educational Savings Plans
I agree with Peter. The best practice is to list it and explain.
Would you omit an ERISA qualified pension plan on Schedule "B"
simply because it isn't property of the estate per Patterson v.
Shumate? Of course not. Schedule "B" doesn't say "only list assets
which would be property of the bankruptcy estate". You must list
ALL assets. Whether they have any value or are property of the
estate is an entirely different story.
I would list the account and the balance, then explain in the
description that it is not property of the estate.
One other method, just thinking off the top of my head, would be to
put these accounts in question #14 of the SFA (property held for
another) instead of Schedule "B", but they may need to be trust
accounts in order to do that. I haven't completely thought that one
through yet...just throwing it out there.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at
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List and explain why you believe it is not property of the estate so that the
trusteehas an opportunity to make his/herown/independent determination as to
how the statute applies to the facts.
Peter M. Lively, JD, MBA
The Personal Financial Law Center* Culver City & Costa Mesa * 800-307-DEBT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 3:45:56 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: IRC Sect. 529 Educational Savings Plans
Friends:
I read:
11 USC 541 (b) Property of the estate does notinclude--
cation individual retirement account (as
defined insection 530(b)(1)of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986) not later
than 365 days before the date of the filing of the petition in a case under this
title,but--
I have a client with 3 kids who have less than $5,000 each Account. Account
opened 5 years ago in 2006. Debtor put the money in the accounts 2007. So Am I
correct that
1. WE DON'T HAVE TO LIST ON THE BANKRUPTCY AT ALL?
2. BEST PRACTICE IS TO LIST AND "NOTE" that its not property of the
estate.......?
Which say all of you?
Thanks for the revisit:
2011/3/24 Cameron Totten
>This is an oldie but a goodie so I thought that I would revisit it. I read the
>code section which seems to include grandchildren as well. So, why the
>distinction between grandparents and parents with regard to listing on the>schedules? Thanks.
>
>Cameron H. Totten, Esq.>
>
>
>Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Re: IRC Sect. 529 Educational Savings Plans
>
>
>That is very good advice - when in doubt, disclose and explain. Clients often
>have 529 accounts in which contributions are partially outside the 2-year period
>and partially within the 2 years. It's always best to list the entire account
>and detail the time periods of the contributions. I had one client who had been
>contributing so heavily to his daughter's 529 account that we waited a year to
>file his case to let the two-year date pass. Sometimes these accounts have been
>owned by the grandparents of my clients' children, and those I do not list at
>all in the Schedules.
>
>Jim
>
>James R. Selth
>Weintraub & Selth, APC
>
>Interesting how even the amounts from deposits over 2 years old or under $5,475
>if between 1 and2 years old still have to be disclosed under section 521(c)
>even though they are not assets of the estate. None of the other assets
>excluded from the definition of estateassets under section 541(b)>disclosurerequirement. Obviously, even if there wasno>requirement,likeERISA qualifiedretirement plans, it is always best
>tolistfor disclosure purposes andnote they are not assets of theestate.
>
>Mark T. Jessee
>Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>--
R. Grace Rodriguez, Esq.
OFF: (818) 734-7223
CEL: (818) 554-9922
(A) only if the designated beneficiary of such account was a child, stepchild,
grandchild, or stepgrandchild of the debtor for the taxable year for which funds
were placed in such account;
>(B) only to the extent that suchfunds--
>(i) are not pledged or promised to any entity in connection with any extension
>of credit; and
>>(ii) are not excess contributions (as described insection 4973(e)>>Internal Revenue Code of 1986); and
(C) in the case of funds placed in all such accounts having the same designated
beneficiary not earlier than 720 days nor later than 365 days before such date,
only so much of such funds as does not exceed $5,000[$5,475 effective 4-1-07.
Adjusted every 3 years bysection 104.];
List and explain why you believe it is not property of the estate so that the trustee has an opportunity to make his/her own/independent determination as to how the statute applies to the facts.
Peter M. Lively, JD, MBA
The Personal Financial Law Center * Culver City & Costa Mesa * 800-307-DEBT
From: R Grace Rodriguez <rgracelaw@gmail.com>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSent: Sun, May 1, 2011 3:45:56 PMSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: IRC Sect. 529 Educational Savings Plans
Friends:I read:11 USC 541 (b) Property of the estate does not include-- (5) funds placed in an education individual retirement account (as defined in section 530(b)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of
1986) not later than 365 days before the date of the filing of the petition in a case under this title, but--
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Friends:
I read:
11 USC 541 (b) Property of the estate does not include--
(5) funds placed in an education individual retirement account (as
defined in section 530(b)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986) not later
than 365 days before the date of the filing of the petition in a case under
this title, but--
(A) only if the designated beneficiary of such account was a child,
stepchild, grandchild, or stepgrandchild of the debtor for the taxable year
for which funds were placed in such account;
(B) only to the extent that such funds--
(i) are not pledged or promised to any entity in connection with any
extension of credit; and
(ii) are not excess contributions (as described in section 4973(e) of the
Internal Revenue Code of 1986); and
(C) in the case of funds placed in all such accounts having the same
designated beneficiary not earlier than 720 days nor later than 365 days
before such date, only so much of such funds as does not exceed $5,000 [$5,475
effective 4-1-07. Adjusted every 3 years bysection 104.];
I have a client with 3 kids who have less than $5,000 each Account. Account
opened 5 years ago in 2006. Debtor put the money in the accounts 2007. So
Am I correct that
1. WE DON'T HAVE TO LIST ON THE BANKRUPTCY AT ALL?
2. BEST PRACTICE IS TO LIST AND "NOTE" that its not property of the
estate.......?
Which say all of you?
Thanks for the revisit:
2011/3/24 Cameron Totten
>
>
> This is an oldie but a goodie so I thought that I would revisit it. I read
> the code section which seems to include grandchildren as well. So, why the
> distinction between grandparents and parents with regard to listing on the
> schedules? Thanks.
>
>
>
> *Cameron H. Totten, Esq. *
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Re: IRC Sect. 529 Educational Savings Plans
>
>
>
>
>
> That is very good advice - when in doubt, disclose and explain. Clients
> often have 529 accounts in which contributions are partially outside the
> 2-year period and partially within the 2 years. It's always best to list
> the entire account and detail the time periods of the contributions. I had
> one client who had been contributing so heavily to his daughter's 529
> account that we waited a year to file his case to let the two-year date
> pass. Sometimes these accounts have been owned by the grandparents of my
> clients' children, and those I do not list at all in the Schedules.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> James R. Selth
>
> Weintraub & Selth, APC
>
> Interesting how even the amounts from deposits over 2 years old or under
> $5,475 if between 1 and 2 years old still have to be disclosed under section
> 521(c) even though they are not assets of the estate. None of the other
> assets excluded from the definition of estate assets under section
> 541(b) have such a disclosure requirement. Obviously, even if there
> was no 521(c) disclosure requirement, like ERISA qualified retirement plans,
> it is always best to list for disclosure purposes and note they are not
> assets of the estate.
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>
R. Grace Rodriguez, Esq.
OFF: (818) 734-7223
CEL: (818) 554-9922
Friends:I read:11 USC 541
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="windows-1251"
This is an oldie but a goodie so I thought that I would revisit it. I read
the code section which seems to include grandchildren as well. So, why the
distinction between grandparents and parents with regard to listing on the
schedules? Thanks.
Cameron H. Totten, Esq. Law Offices of Cameron H. Totten
620 N. Brand Blvd., Suite 405
Glendale, CA 91203
(818) 483-5795
(818) 230-9817 (fax)
Description: CT_squarelogo_small
ctotten@ctottenlaw.com
http://ctottenlaw.com/
Cameron Totten (ctottenlaw) on Twitter
The post was migrated from Yahoo.