.jpg)
listing household contributions....
Thanks, but please don't misconstrue my question. I'm not starting a debate as to whom should be listed as part of the household count. The OUST believes they must be dependents, which is just flat out wrong, but again, that's not my issue. My question regards the inclusion of contributions from other household members on line 8--regardless of the household size.
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] listing household contributions....
I do what you do, if it does not make any difference, I list one. I think if the Debtor supports all 5, you can list six. You need to take all income from the others. I also do a declaration and explain all the folks that are living with the Debtor. Are any of these people on the Debtor's tax return?
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail: hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----
f Mark JM
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 14:55
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] listing household contributions....
How are all of you handling situations where a debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in the case.
So, in the example above,the household size should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone) are easy, but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
Thanks, but please don't misconstrue my
question. I'm not starting a debate as to whom should be listed as part of
the household count. The OUST believes they must be dependents, which is
just flat out wrong, but again, that's not my issue. My question regards
the inclusion of contributions from other household members on line
8--regardless of the household size.
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is aQualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic
Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be
privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addresseeonly. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy,
distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.IRS
CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS,
we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in
any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for
the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or
matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
----- Original Message -----
From:
Henry M. Toles
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:17
PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] listing household
contributions....
I do
what you do, if it does not make any difference, I list one. I think if
the Debtor supports all 5, you can list six. You need to take all income
from the others. I also do a declaration and explain all the folks that
are living with the Debtor. Are any of these people on the Debtor's tax
return?
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law
Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310)
575-0343E-Mail: hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of
Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally designated
Debt Relief Agency under the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debtproblems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filingof petitions for relief under
the United States Bankruptcy Code.This does not constitute an
electronic signature.This message contains confiidential information
which may also be privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or
authorized to receive for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or
distribute the information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark JMSent:
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 14:55To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] listing household
contributions....
How are all of you handling situations where a
debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their
pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the
coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes
a difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it
has been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a
difference in the case.
So, in the example above,the household size
should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide
food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in
line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone)
are easy, but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food
budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA
91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a
Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This
Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use
of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with
requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing
or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this
communication (or in any attachment).
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I do what you do, if it does not make any difference, I list one. I think
if the Debtor supports all 5, you can list six. You need to take all income
from the others. I also do a declaration and explain all the folks that are
living with the Debtor. Are any of these people on the Debtor's tax return?
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail: hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----
Mark JM
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 14:55
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] listing household contributions....
How are all of you handling situations where a debtor lives at home with
mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet rock? For the most
part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's way out by listing a
household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference on the means
test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering me, and one of
these days it IS going to make a difference in the case.
So, in the example above,the household size should clearly be 6 (animals
and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid for some of debtor's car
insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill.
How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts
(for insurance and phone) are easy, but what about food? You know mom
doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of
cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or
in any attachment).
I do
what you do, if it does not make any difference, I list one. I think if
the Debtor supports all 5, you can list six. You need to take all income
from the others. I also do a declaration and explain all the folks that
are living with the Debtor. Are any of these people on the Debtor's tax
return?
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law
Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310) 575-0343E-Mail:
hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy
Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under
the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to
their debtproblems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the
filingof petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy
Code.This does not constitute an electronic signature.Thismessage contains confiidential information which may also be privileged. Unless
you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended
recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the information contained in this
message.
-----Original Message-----From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark JMSent:
Tuesday, January 22, 2008 14:55To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] listing household
contributions....
How are all of you handling situations where a
debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their
pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the
coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a
difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has
been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in
the case.
So, in the example above,the household size
should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide
food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month
period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in
line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone)
are easy, but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food
budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes
soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA
91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a
Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic
Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be
privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee
only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the
IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
(or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be
used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue
Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any
attachment).
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
See In re Jewel, 365 B.R. 796, 801-02 (Bankr. S.D. Ohio 2007), can include household members not listed as dependents on tax return. Group should function as a economic unit and be more than temporary.
While UST takes the IRS dependent's test with some exceptions, but the Code does not define "household" and "Congress did not limit debtor's household only to those claimed as tax dependents" NCLC Reports (Bankruptcy and Foreclosure Edition), Volunme 26, September/October 2007.
Mark JM wrote:
How are all of you handling situations where a debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in the case.
So, in the example above,the household size should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone) are easy, but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
See In re Jewel, 365 B.R. 796, 801-02 (Bankr. S.D. Ohio 2007), can include household members not listed as dependents on tax return. Group should function as a economic unit and be more than temporary. While UST takes the IRS dependent's test with some exceptions, but the Code does not define "household" and "Congress did not limit debtor's household only to those claimed as tax dependents" NCLC Reports (Bankruptcy and Foreclosure Edition), Volunme 26, September/October 2007. Mark JM <bklawr@yahoo.com> wrote: How are all of you handling situations where a debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in the case. So, in the example above,the household size should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone) are easy,
but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6. Am I overthinking this? ______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents
of this message is prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
How are all of you handling situations where a debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in the case.
So, in the example above,the household size should clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of his phone bill. How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form 22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone) are easy, but what about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6 people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for 6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
How are all of you handling situations where a
debtor lives at home with mom and dad, 3 sisters, a dog, a hamster and their pet
rock? For the most part, I admittedly have been taking the coward's
way out by listing a household size of "1" unless it actually makes a difference
on the means test. However, it's not accurate, it has been bothering
me, and one of these days it IS going to make a difference in the
case.
So, in the example above,the household size should
clearly be 6 (animals and rock excluded). Mom and Dad provide food, paid
for some of debtor's car insurance over the relevant 6 month period, and some of
his phone bill. How much of this gets put in line 8 of Form
22A? The actual cash layouts (for insurance and phone) are easy, but what
about food? You know mom doesn't allocate the food budget among the 6people, she buys 2 heads of cabbage, some onions and makes soup for
6.
Am I overthinking this?
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is aQualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic
Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be
privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addresseeonly. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy,
distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.IRS
CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS,
we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in
any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for
the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or
matter addressed in this communication (or in any
attachment).
The post was migrated from Yahoo.