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payday loans/closing bank account
Is there any difference between, insufficient fund, stop payment on a check
and closed account under California law in relation to the payday loan?
Is there any difference between, insufficient fund, stop payment on a check and closed account under California law in relation to the payday loan?
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----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: payday loans/closing bank account
--- In cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com, "Mark J. Markus" wrote:
>
Criminal law requires intent to commit a crime, a mens rea. If your
client got the loan, filed bk the next day and closed the account,
could be some criminal laibility. Remember, here in LA LA land, the
good guys are out chasing drug runners, gang bangers, murderers, not
usually paychecks borrower types. In small rural communities, where
the paychecks lender makes big contributions to the local sheriff's
re-election campaign, there is some incentive to prosecute this type
of case, but here it is not likely to get anyone's attention.
btw, did a case a couple of months ago with more than five paychecks
companies on the debtors creditor list. No fallout that came back
to me.
The more interesting issue is Bernard v. Schaffer. Bernard or
Shaffer, don't remember which one, was denied a discharge under 727
for closing a bank account to keep the IRS from levying. Sounds
similar here. Remember, hinder, delay or defruad, coupled with a
727 complaint no discharge.
dennis
Good point, but if they want to file a 727 action over a $250 debt, then God bless them
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
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----- Original Message -----
From:
Dennis McGoldrick
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:58
PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: payday
loans/closing bank account
--- In cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com, "Mark J.
Markus" <bklawr@b...> wrote:>
Criminal law requires intent to commit a crime, a mens rea.
If your client got the loan, filed bk the next day and closed the account,
could be some criminal laibility. Remember, here in LA LA land, the
good guys are out chasing drug runners, gang bangers, murderers, not usually paychecks borrower types. In small rural communities, where
the paychecks lender makes big contributions to the local sheriff's
re-election campaign, there is some incentive to prosecute this type of case, but here it is not likely to get anyone's
attention.btw, did a case a couple of months ago with more than
five paychecks companies on the debtors creditor list. No fallout
that came back to me.The more interesting issue is Bernard v. Schaffer. Bernard or Shaffer, don't remember which one, was denied a
discharge under 727 for closing a bank account to keep the IRS from
levying. Sounds similar here. Remember, hinder, delay or defruad, coupled with a 727 complaint no
discharge.dennis
Good point, but if they want to file a 727 action over a
$250 debt, then God bless them
***********************************************Mark J.
MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB
#403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460
(fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
>
Criminal law requires intent to commit a crime, a mens rea. If your
client got the loan, filed bk the next day and closed the account,
could be some criminal laibility. Remember, here in LA LA land, the
good guys are out chasing drug runners, gang bangers, murderers, not
usually paychecks borrower types. In small rural communities, where
the paychecks lender makes big contributions to the local sheriff's
re-election campaign, there is some incentive to prosecute this type
of case, but here it is not likely to get anyone's attention.
btw, did a case a couple of months ago with more than five paychecks
companies on the debtors creditor list. No fallout that came back
to me.
The more interesting issue is Bernard v. Schaffer. Bernard or
Shaffer, don't remember which one, was denied a discharge under 727
for closing a bank account to keep the IRS from levying. Sounds
similar here. Remember, hinder, delay or defruad, coupled with a
727 complaint = no discharge.
dennis
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Mark,
This is a great question. I, too, would like to know the answer under
California law.
In a case where one is going to discharge a payday loan in a bk case,
there is a practical need to either close the account or revoke the
auto-deduction. Otherwise, the auto-deduction may go on despite the
automatic stay.
Mike Candiotti
Mark J. Markus" wrote:
> Does anyone know what the law is in California regarding closing a
bank account to stop collection of a payday loan? I've heard that in
other states that is criminal fraud by the debtor. I just got called
by a client who said she closed her bank account to stop these
vultures from pulling more money out of her bank account. I know we
can get rid of the underlying debt in a bankruptcy, but is there
criminal liability for her here?
>
> Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
> entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is
privileged,
> confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
> distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by
anyone
> other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for
> delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
> have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at
(818)
> 509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@b... and destroy the
> original message and all copies.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
What I end up telling my clients is to also place stop payments on the
checks, although I now understand that they try to take the money out
electronically. But I figure that if the check has a stop payment on it and
the account is closed you should be O.K., but that is just my opinion.
CS
Charles Shamash, Esq.
Caceres & Shamash, LLP
8383 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1010
Beverly Hills, CA 90211-2409
Phone: (323) 852-1600 X 101
Facsimile: (323) 852-9009
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:48 AM
To: BK Roundtable
Cc: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] payday loans/closing bank account
Does anyone know what the law is in California regarding closing a bank
account to stop collection of a payday loan? I've heard that in other
states that is criminal fraud by the debtor. I just got called by a client
who said she closed her bank account to stop these vultures from pulling
more money out of her bank account. I know we can get rid of the
underlying debt in a bankruptcy, but is there criminal liability for her
here?
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is
privileged,
confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)
509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
original message and all copies.
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Does anyone know what the law is in California regarding closing a bank account to stop collection of a payday loan? I've heard that in other states that is criminal fraud by the debtor. I just got called by a client who said she closed her bank account to stop these vultures from pulling more money out of her bank account. I know we can get rid of the underlying debt in a bankruptcy, but is there criminal liability for her here?
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)
509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
original message and all copies.
Does anyone know what the law is in California
regarding closing a bank account to stop collection of a payday
loan? I've heard that in other states that is criminal fraud by the
debtor. I just got called by a client who said she closed her bank
account to stop these vultures from pulling more money out of her bank
account. I know we can get rid of the underlying debt in a
bankruptcy, but is there criminal liability for her here?
***********************************************Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460 (fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.