.jpg)
NACBA Convention
>
> I agree to an extent with both of you. As to
> Dennis, I'm not worried at all about the actual
> forms. Software companies will have those nailed
> down shortly. I'm WAY more worried about
> interpreting things on how to advise clients and
> elicit the necessary information and documentation
> from them, and how to effectively revamp my retainer
> agreement and client intake procedures. My other
> huge concern is malpractice insurance premiums,
> although that isn't anything NACBA or anyone else
> can do anything about.
>
Mark: Your comments are a mix, and I agree with both
you and Carolyn. There was a lot of intersting
discussion. The nuts and bolts, however, should have
been covered. That required someone figuring out
everything that a lawyer has to do to comply with this
law and make checklists for the various chapters.
I've already discussed the lack of discussion of
secton 521. Another example, the tax guru's told us
only what was taken away. The flip side was we have a
great marketing chance to get as many of the nonfilers
filed before October as possible. No one addressed
this market. The tax guru's didn't discuss filing a
short year return to bring in taxes to a case to beat
the abuse test. This was obvious to anyone who
understands tax, but it was not mentioned. In fact, a
client might easily bust the abuse test by paying
everyting but taxes for a period of time before
filing. Coupled with a short year return, the
"priority" taxes would have to be paid from the future
budget and a potential abuse case could squeek
through.
The fair debt practices guys really covered this type
of marketing, discussed exactly what to look for and
how to build a practice. Tax guys -2, FDP guys +100.
Carolyn was right, we learned a lot, but a lot was
left off of the table, much of it practical.
dennis
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I agree to an extent with both of you. As to Dennis, I'm not worried at all about the actual forms. Software companies will have those nailed down shortly. I'm WAY more worried about interpreting things on how to advise clients and elicit the necessary information and documentation from them, and how to effectively revamp my retainer agreement and client intake procedures. My other huge concern is malpractice insurance premiums, although that isn't anything NACBA or anyone else can do anything about.
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
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----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] NACBA Convention
Dennis:
I have a different prespective. I came away from the NACBA conference with a better general understanding of the new law. I thought that the presentation was extremely informative given the time which had elapsed since the passage of the bill and the fact there no US Trustee guideline and no Bankruptcy Rule as yet have been promulgated which address the new law. Everyone is scrambling.
For those who are interested in forms, NACBA will have a conference in Chicago open only to bankruptcy attorneys and their employees in late July which will address the practical aspect of conforming to the new law.
Casey
C. Casey White
Attorney at Law
16830 Ventura Blvd., Suite 347
Encino, CA 91436
Tel: (818)380-1734 or (805)584-6190
Fax: (818)906-8828 or (805)520-7851
Cell:(805)501-3314
e-mail: ckcwhite@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 02 May 2005 17:14:36 -0000
Subject: [cdcbaa] NACBA Convention
Hello:
It was nice to see so many familiar faces in San Diego.
My impression of the convention was only "fair". What did the rest
of you think?
Although the speakers were intersting, and some of them funny, the
materials were very poor.
Although section 521 requires many new forms, none were provided
(they aren't written yet, by the various forms committees, but
expected or projected versions would have been helpful.)
A sample 342 notice would have been easy to produce and hand out.
A sample means test form would have been easy to produce. (I am
drafting an excel spreadsheet with the calculations and will post it
this week.)
At any rate:
Here is a beginning checklist of the ADDITIONAL new forms you will
need to file a bankruptcy October 17.
1 - a certificate you have shown the debtor the 342a notice.
2 - A form to which you must attach copies of all of the debtor's paycheck stubs (and any other evidence of payment items) received by
the debtor within the sixty days prior to filing.
3 - Statement of Monthly Net Income - this must be supported by
calculations
4 - Statement of any anticipated increase in income over the next 12
months.
For Individuals add:
5 - A certifcate FROM AND APPROVED COUNSELING AGENCY, the debtor has
received the required counseling, and
6 - A copy of the proposed repayment plan from the Counseling Agency.
Before the 341a
7 - Seven days before the 341a: a copy of the debtor's most recent
tax return (can be a transcript, we probably all need to know how to
get a transcript, as creditors can request a copy of the return or
transcript, and the debtor must give the creditor the return or
transcript (see 521 (2)(C))
8 - If requested by the court, ust, trustee, OR ANY PARTY IN
INTEREST (READ CREDITORS)
a. The previous 3 years tax returns (or transcripts).
b. All tax returns which become due during the case.
Section 707(b)(2)(C) also requires a calculation of the abuse test.
(this will be an interesting drafting problem)
Anyway, there are at least 8 new forms required. Looks like the
minimum filing will now be 50 pages, or more.
dennis
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
I agree to an extent with both of
you. As to Dennis, I'm not worried at all about the actual
forms. Software companies will have those nailed down shortly. I'm
WAY more worried about interpreting things on how to advise clients and elicit
the necessary information and documentation from them, and how to effectively
revamp my retainer agreement and client intake procedures. My other huge
concern is malpractice insurance premiums, although that isn't anything NACBA or
anyone else can do anything about.
***********************************************Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460 (fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Dennis:
I have a different prespective. I came away from the NACBA conference with a better general understanding of the new law. I thought that the presentation was extremely informative given the time which had elapsed since the passage of the bill and the fact there no US Trustee guideline and no Bankruptcy Rule as yet have been promulgated which address the new law. Everyone is scrambling.
For those who are interested in forms, NACBA will have a conference in Chicago open only to bankruptcy attorneys and their employees in late July which will address the practical aspect of conforming to the new law.
Casey
C. Casey White
Attorney at Law
16830 Ventura Blvd., Suite 347
Encino, CA 91436
Tel: (818)380-1734 or (805)584-6190
Fax: (818)906-8828 or (805)520-7851
Cell:(805)501-3314
e-mail: ckcwhite@aol.com
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 02 May 2005 17:14:36 -0000
Subject: [cdcbaa] NACBA Convention
Hello:
It was nice to see so many familiar faces in San Diego.
My impression of the convention was only "fair". What did the rest
of you think?
Although the speakers were intersting, and some of them funny, the
materials were very poor.
Although section 521 requires many new forms, none were provided
(they aren't written yet, by the various forms committees, but
expected or projected versions would have been helpful.)
A sample 342 notice would have been easy to produce and hand out.
A sample means test form would have been easy to produce. (I am
drafting an excel spreadsheet with the calculations and will post it
this week.)
At any rate:
Here is a beginning checklist of the ADDITIONAL new forms you will
need to file a bankruptcy October 17.
1 - a certificate you have shown the debtor the 342a notice.
2 - A form to which you must attach copies of all of the debtor's
paycheck stubs (and any other evidence of payment items) received by
the debtor within the sixty days prior to filing.
3 - Statement of Monthly Net Income - this must be supported by
calculations
4 - Statement of any anticipated increase in income over the next 12
months.
For Individuals add:
5 - A certifcate FROM AND APPROVED COUNSELING AGENCY, the debtor has
received the required counseling, and
6 - A copy of the proposed repayment plan from the Counseling Agency.
Before the 341a
7 - Seven days before the 341a: a copy of the debtor's most recent
tax return (can be a transcript, we probably all need to know how to
get a transcript, as creditors can request a copy of the return or
transcript, and the debtor must give the creditor the return or
transcript (see 521 (2)(C))
8 - If requested by the court, ust, trustee, OR ANY PARTY IN
INTEREST (READ CREDITORS)
a. The previous 3 years tax returns (or transcripts).
b. All tax returns which become due during the case.
Section 707(b)(2)(C) also requires a calculation of the abuse test.
(this will be an interesting drafting problem)
Anyway, there are at least 8 new forms required. Looks like the
minimum filing will now be 50 pages, or more.
dennis
Yahoo! Groups Links
Dennis:
I have a different prespective. I came away from the NACBA conference with a better general understanding of the new law. I thought that the presentation was extremely informative given the time which had elapsed since the passage of the bill and the fact there no US Trustee guideline and no Bankruptcy Rule as yet have been promulgated which address the new law. Everyone is scrambling.
For those who are interested in forms, NACBA will have a conference in Chicago open only to bankruptcy attorneys and their employees in late July which will address the practical aspect of conforming to the new law.
Casey
C. Casey WhiteAttorney at Law16830 Ventura Blvd., Suite 347Encino, CA 91436Tel: (818)380-1734 or (805)584-6190Fax: (818)906-8828 or (805)520-7851Cell:(805)501-3314e-mail: ckcwhite@aol.com
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Hello:
It was nice to see so many familiar faces in San Diego.
My impression of the convention was only "fair". What did the rest
of you think?
Although the speakers were intersting, and some of them funny, the
materials were very poor.
Although section 521 requires many new forms, none were provided
(they aren't written yet, by the various forms committees, but
expected or projected versions would have been helpful.)
A sample 342 notice would have been easy to produce and hand out.
A sample means test form would have been easy to produce. (I am
drafting an excel spreadsheet with the calculations and will post it
this week.)
At any rate:
Here is a beginning checklist of the ADDITIONAL new forms you will
need to file a bankruptcy October 17.
1 - a certificate you have shown the debtor the 342a notice.
2 - A form to which you must attach copies of all of the debtor's
paycheck stubs (and any other evidence of payment items) received by
the debtor within the sixty days prior to filing.
3 - Statement of Monthly Net Income - this must be supported by
calculations
4 - Statement of any anticipated increase in income over the next 12
months.
For Individuals add:
5 - A certifcate FROM AND APPROVED COUNSELING AGENCY, the debtor has
received the required counseling, and
6 - A copy of the proposed repayment plan from the Counseling Agency.
Before the 341a
7 - Seven days before the 341a: a copy of the debtor's most recent
tax return (can be a transcript, we probably all need to know how to
get a transcript, as creditors can request a copy of the return or
transcript, and the debtor must give the creditor the return or
transcript (see 521 (2)(C))
8 - If requested by the court, ust, trustee, OR ANY PARTY IN
INTEREST (READ CREDITORS)
a. The previous 3 years tax returns (or transcripts).
b. All tax returns which become due during the case.
Section 707(b)(2)(C) also requires a calculation of the abuse test.
(this will be an interesting drafting problem)
Anyway, there are at least 8 new forms required. Looks like the
minimum filing will now be 50 pages, or more.
dennis
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Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cdcbaa/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
cdcbaa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Thanks for the feedback for those who could not attend. CF
To:
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: [cdcbaa] NACBA Convention
> Hello:
>
> It was nice to see so many familiar faces in San Diego.
>
> My impression of the convention was only "fair". What did the rest
> of you think?
>
> Although the speakers were intersting, and some of them funny, the
> materials were very poor.
>
> Although section 521 requires many new forms, none were provided
> (they aren't written yet, by the various forms committees, but
> expected or projected versions would have been helpful.)
>
> A sample 342 notice would have been easy to produce and hand out.
>
> A sample means test form would have been easy to produce. (I am
> drafting an excel spreadsheet with the calculations and will post it
> this week.)
>
> At any rate:
>
> Here is a beginning checklist of the ADDITIONAL new forms you will
> need to file a bankruptcy October 17.
>
> 1 - a certificate you have shown the debtor the 342a notice.
> 2 - A form to which you must attach copies of all of the debtor's
> paycheck stubs (and any other evidence of payment items) received by
> the debtor within the sixty days prior to filing.
> 3 - Statement of Monthly Net Income - this must be supported by
> calculations
> 4 - Statement of any anticipated increase in income over the next 12
> months.
> For Individuals add:
> 5 - A certifcate FROM AND APPROVED COUNSELING AGENCY, the debtor has
> received the required counseling, and
> 6 - A copy of the proposed repayment plan from the Counseling Agency.
>
>
> Before the 341a
>
> 7 - Seven days before the 341a: a copy of the debtor's most recent
> tax return (can be a transcript, we probably all need to know how to
> get a transcript, as creditors can request a copy of the return or
> transcript, and the debtor must give the creditor the return or
> transcript (see 521 (2)(C))
> 8 - If requested by the court, ust, trustee, OR ANY PARTY IN
> INTEREST (READ CREDITORS)
> a. The previous 3 years tax returns (or transcripts).
> b. All tax returns which become due during the case.
>
> Section 707(b)(2)(C) also requires a calculation of the abuse test.
> (this will be an interesting drafting problem)
>
> Anyway, there are at least 8 new forms required. Looks like the
> minimum filing will now be 50 pages, or more.
>
> dennis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello:
It was nice to see so many familiar faces in San Diego.
My impression of the convention was only "fair". What did the rest
of you think?
Although the speakers were intersting, and some of them funny, the
materials were very poor.
Although section 521 requires many new forms, none were provided
(they aren't written yet, by the various forms committees, but
expected or projected versions would have been helpful.)
A sample 342 notice would have been easy to produce and hand out.
A sample means test form would have been easy to produce. (I am
drafting an excel spreadsheet with the calculations and will post it
this week.)
At any rate:
Here is a beginning checklist of the ADDITIONAL new forms you will
need to file a bankruptcy October 17.
1 - a certificate you have shown the debtor the 342a notice.
2 - A form to which you must attach copies of all of the debtor's
paycheck stubs (and any other evidence of payment items) received by
the debtor within the sixty days prior to filing.
3 - Statement of Monthly Net Income - this must be supported by
calculations
4 - Statement of any anticipated increase in income over the next 12
months.
For Individuals add:
5 - A certifcate FROM AND APPROVED COUNSELING AGENCY, the debtor has
received the required counseling, and
6 - A copy of the proposed repayment plan from the Counseling Agency.
Before the 341a
7 - Seven days before the 341a: a copy of the debtor's most recent
tax return (can be a transcript, we probably all need to know how to
get a transcript, as creditors can request a copy of the return or
transcript, and the debtor must give the creditor the return or
transcript (see 521 (2)(C))
8 - If requested by the court, ust, trustee, OR ANY PARTY IN
INTEREST (READ CREDITORS)
a. The previous 3 years tax returns (or transcripts).
b. All tax returns which become due during the case.
Section 707(b)(2)(C) also requires a calculation of the abuse test.
(this will be an interesting drafting problem)
Anyway, there are at least 8 new forms required. Looks like the
minimum filing will now be 50 pages, or more.
dennis
The post was migrated from Yahoo.