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Undocumented alien with no SSN
I stand corrected - it is the IRS that issues ITIN's although I previously said SSA.
Wayne Wilhelm
"Mark T. Jessee" wrote:
SSA has nothing to do with issuance of ITIN. IRS issues after
completion of form W-7, which must be submitted with a completed tax
return for ITIN to be issued.
Mark Jessee
wrote:
> Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
>
> At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer
Identification
> >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
> >can be used on the petition.
>
> I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens
who
> are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's
> situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
> they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this
category.
>
> From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
> post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
> does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
> statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does
> that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a
number?
>
> Silvio Nardoni
> Glendale, CA
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I stand corrected - it is the IRS that issues ITIN's although I previously said SSA.
Wayne Wilhelm"Mark T. Jessee" <mjessee@jesseelaw.com> wrote:
SSA has nothing to do with issuance of ITIN. IRS issues after completion of form W-7, which must be submitted with a completed tax return for ITIN to be issued.Mark Jessee--- In cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com, Silvio Nardoni <silvionardoni@y...> wrote:> Wayne Wilhelm wrote:> > At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:> >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer Identification > >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number > >can be used on the petition.> > I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens who > are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's > situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that > they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this category.> > From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the > post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains, > does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure > statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does > that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a number?> > Silvio Nardoni> Glendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Thanks to everyone who has enlightened me on this ITIN business.
I agree with Lou Esbin's remark that under BARF (I love that
acronym!) we may need to consider whether filing a case for an
undocumented alien might subject counsel to adverse consequences.
Silvio Nardoni
Glendale, CA
At 09:56 AM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
>The IRS link for ITINs is
>www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id287,00.html#what
>
>
>Patrick T. Green, Esq.
>Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
>1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
>Pasadena, CA 91106
>Ph: (626) 449-8433
>Fax: (626) 449-0565
>pg23@earthlink.net
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Mark T. Jessee
>Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:07 AM
>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Undocumented alien with no SSN
>
>SSA has nothing to do with issuance of ITIN. IRS issues after
>completion of form W-7, which must be submitted with a completed tax
>return for ITIN to be issued.
>
>Mark Jessee
>
>--- In cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com, Silvio Nardoni
>wrote:
> > Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
> >
> > At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> > >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer
>Identification
> > >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
> > >can be used on the petition.
> >
> > I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens
>who
> > are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's
> > situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
> > they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> > otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this
>category.
> >
> > From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
> > post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
> > does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
> > statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does
> > that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a
>number?
> >
> > Silvio Nardoni
> > Glendale, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The IRS link for ITINs is
www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id287,00.html#what
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net
Mark T. Jessee
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:07 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Undocumented alien with no SSN
SSA has nothing to do with issuance of ITIN. IRS issues after
completion of form W-7, which must be submitted with a completed tax
return for ITIN to be issued.
Mark Jessee
wrote:
> Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
>
> At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer
Identification
> >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
> >can be used on the petition.
>
> I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens
who
> are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's
> situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
> they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this
category.
>
> From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
> post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
> does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
> statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does
> that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a
number?
>
> Silvio Nardoni
> Glendale, CA
Yahoo! Groups Links
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
SSA has nothing to do with issuance of ITIN. IRS issues after
completion of form W-7, which must be submitted with a completed tax
return for ITIN to be issued.
Mark Jessee
wrote:
> Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
>
> At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer
Identification
> >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
> >can be used on the petition.
>
> I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens
who
> are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's
> situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
> they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this
category.
>
> From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
> post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
> does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
> statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does
> that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a
number?
>
> Silvio Nardoni
> Glendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Sylvio,
Do we all need to step back and ponder whether, in fact, an
undocumented alien now, in the Post 9-11 and Patriot Act days, has
the right to file for bankruptcy protection. I am sure everyone
will agree that they have access to our courts to redress wrongs;
but what now? You wonder, are we to become border patrol officers?
Is there anything in the Patriot Act or some hidden federal statute
that places some added duty on us when an undocumented alien comes
to our offices for assistance? After all, under BARF we may have
criminal liability for advising a client to incur debt in
anticipation of bankruptcy -- what of advising an undocumented
alien? What rights will these people have to go to Credit
Counseling and Credit Education, both to be administered through the
DOJ, once BARF becomes effective? As an adjunct of the DOJ does a
Chapter 7 Trustee or Chapter 13 Trustee have a duty to report the
undocumented alien.
These are heady questions, but certainly ones that we all must
consider, and maybe, at our next round table discuss and try to
solicit a response from the UST.
Best regards. Lou Esbin
wrote:
> Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
>
> At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
> >Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer
Identification
> >Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this
number
> >can be used on the petition.
>
> I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens
who
> are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential
client's
> situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
> they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
> otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this
category.
>
> From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
> post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
> does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
> statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN.
Does
> that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a
number?
>
> Silvio Nardoni
> Glendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Wayne Wilhelm wrote:
At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
>Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer Identification
>Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
>can be used on the petition.
I checked the SSA web site. They no longer issue ITIN's to aliens who
are not authorized to work in the US (such as my potential client's
situation). They will issue a number only if alien can show that
they must have an SSN to apply for benefits to which they are
otherwise entitled. I don't think bankruptcy falls into this category.
From what I read on the SSA web site, there is no way in the
post-9/11 world that he can get an SSN. So, my question remains,
does the client have to have one in order to file? The disclosure
statement form offers the option of the debtor having no SSN. Does
that imply that the court will accept a petition without such a number?
Silvio Nardoni
Glendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Wayne:
At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
>Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer Identification
>Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number
>can be used on the petition. You will also have to file a
>declaration of use of false ssn that must be served on all creditors
>and credit reporting agencies. Hope this helps.
This is very helpful. Thanks.
Silvio Nardoni
>Silvio Nardoni wrote:
>A potential client came to my office. He is not a legal resident of
>the U.S. He has no SSN. Instead, he has used TWO different SSN's
>that he got "on the street."
>
>Obviously, he cannot file a bankruptcy case using either of these
>numbers. My question: can he file a case disclosing that he has no
>SSN? Section 109(a) doesn't seem to exclude undocumented aliens,
>since he does reside in the US.
>
>Advice and warnings welcome.
>
>Silvio Nardoni
>Glendale, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------
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>
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>
>
>----------
Wayne:
At 01:35 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
Does the potential client have
an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues
ITIN's to immigrants and this number can be used on the petition. You
will also have to file a declaration of use of false ssn that must be
served on all creditors and credit reporting agencies. Hope this
helps.
This is very helpful. Thanks.
Silvio Nardoni
Silvio Nardoni
<silvionardoni@yahoo.com> wrote:
A potential client came to my office. He is not a legal
resident of
the U.S. He has no SSN. Instead, he has used TWO
different SSN's
that he got "on the street."
Obviously, he cannot file a bankruptcy case using either of these
numbers. My question: can he file a case disclosing that
he has no
SSN? Section 109(a) doesn't seem to exclude undocumented
aliens,
since he does reside in the US.
Advice and warnings welcome.
Silvio Nardoni
Glendale, CA
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"cdcbaa" on
the web.
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Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number can be used on the petition. You will also have to file a declaration of use of false ssn that must be served on all creditors and credit reporting agencies. Hope this helps.
Silvio Nardoni wrote:A potential client came to my office. He is not a legal resident of
the U.S. He has no SSN. Instead, he has used TWO different SSN's
that he got "on the street."
Obviously, he cannot file a bankruptcy case using either of these
numbers. My question: can he file a case disclosing that he has no
SSN? Section 109(a) doesn't seem to exclude undocumented aliens,
since he does reside in the US.
Advice and warnings welcome.
Silvio Nardoni
Glendale, CA
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "cdcbaa" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
cdcbaa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Does the potential client have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)? The SSA issues ITIN's to immigrants and this number can be used on the petition. You will also have to file a declaration of use of false ssn that must be served on all creditors and credit reporting agencies. Hope this helps.Silvio Nardoni <silvionardoni@yahoo.com> wrote:
A potential client came to my office. He is not a legal resident of the U.S. He has no SSN. Instead, he has used TWO different SSN's that he got "on the street."Obviously, he cannot file a bankruptcy case using either of these numbers. My question: can he file a case disclosing that he has no SSN? Section 109(a) doesn't seem to exclude undocumented aliens, since he does reside in the US.Advice and warnings welcome.Silvio NardoniGlendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
A potential client came to my office. He is not a legal resident of
the U.S. He has no SSN. Instead, he has used TWO different SSN's
that he got "on the street."
Obviously, he cannot file a bankruptcy case using either of these
numbers. My question: can he file a case disclosing that he has no
SSN? Section 109(a) doesn't seem to exclude undocumented aliens,
since he does reside in the US.
Advice and warnings welcome.
Silvio Nardoni
Glendale, CA
The post was migrated from Yahoo.