.jpg)
Property tax bill in ongoing Chapter 13 mess What is proper claim amount prepetition/postpetition?
charset="UTF-8"
Steve:
If you look at a property tax bill, you will see they cover a fiscal year of July 1 to June 30. The ones we are paying now, ie the 12/10/11 and 4/10/11 installments at for the 2011-2012 tax yr, so in essence, we pay mid tax year.
If your client is not paying the property taxes, why put in any work in. You stated there is no payment to unsecureds from which to pay your fees, so where will money for the property tax arrears come from?
If you have any questions or concerns please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
1010 E. Union St. Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
Email: pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Nick:
I partially see your point. She is supposed to make the payment directly. The claim was filed February 1, 2010, so the payment due on 12/10/09 could be a 1305 claim, yet I don't see how the 4/10/10 could be yet since it wasn't due yet at the time of the filing of the claim. Knowing my client, the second installment probably didn't get paid either, and I'm looking into that---but how would the county tax collector get in a bill not even due at the filing of the proof of claim?
There is no specific notation on the Proof of Claim stating it is for 1305 like I see from the IRS or FTB. Not sure that is necessary, and it may be that in a claims objection I'd lose on at least the 1st installment, and maybe on the 2nd installment if the county could prove it wasn't paid after the filing of the proof of claim: Maybe VZ would consider it a 1305 on that basis alone?
The actual tax bill attached to the Proof of Claim is called a "Substitute Secured Property Tax Bill." I remember getting one of those when I first bought my house. I'm not sure if this is some sort of special contraption that allows them to do this under state law, as state law is what all claims are based upon. It wouldn't take a genius in Sacramento to dream up something that shoehorns in future property tax claims in bankruptcy. There may be some tax alchemy going on here I'm missing.
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of bankruptcy noodling I needed.
So Nick, I guess you're in the "Proper" camp on this claim.
Steve
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I think improper because they duplicate either the payments on the secured claims which impound such taxes already or the tax payment for people who have the option of paying their taxes themselves. I would file a claim objection on that basis.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "Steven B. Lever" wrote:
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="US-ASCII"
To my colleagues who practice Chapter 13:
BACKGROUND/GRUMBLING: I never have the time to burrow into my confirmed
13s to check long term feasibility after the claims deadline, although
1305 claims from the IRS/FTB can always come in later, but Nancy Curry
does point out my infeasible ones with a Motion to Dismiss (she is now
looking at projected failures, so I'm grateful to her). So I'm creating
a spreadsheet and doing a full audit of the case this lovely Sunday on
such case. Of course, there is no surplus to pay fees for this work.
FACTS: A Chapter 13 claim came in at $20,778.21 on February 1, 2010
from the Los Angeles County Tax Collector. Prepetition taxes owed were
$15,766.68.
However, they threw into the claim the next due tax bill for $5,011.53
due on 12/10/09 and 4/10/10. The case was filed 8/28/09, ergo both were
due postpetition.
ISSUE: Total claim is $20,778.21 including both prepetition and just
one year due postpetition. There could possibly be some in rem issue
I'm missing or other factor on how property taxes are assessed.
RULE: As I understand it, only prepetition claims are properly put into
a Chapter 13 claim, whether secured or unsecured.
QUESTION: Are the taxes due postpetition properly part of the Los
Angeles County Tax claim? For those kind enough to answer who prefer
one word answers without analysis, please respond "Proper" or "Improper"
but if you think "Proper" a little analysis would be helpful, because
I'm on the "Improper" side for now.
Steve
Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> Steven B. Lever
>( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 6470
>( Fax (800) 360-5161
>* sblever@leverlaw.com
> www.leverlaw.com
charset="US-ASCII"
The post was migrated from Yahoo.