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Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
Keep 3 things in mind: 1) the other side is an attorney who isn't being restrained by a client who is paying fees and costs 2) The lawsuit is because the client didn't pay his attorney fees. 3) The client is already saying there is a limit to what he can raise as attorney fees. That is possibly all you will see and I recommend getting as much of it as possible as a retainer. My experience over 32 years is that Bk clients don't tend to pay you after the litigation is over. They don't win the case and get a check like PI or family law.
Margaret Norman, Attny
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. #355
Manhattan Beach, Ca. 90266
310-376-7873
Fax 310-798-0846
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
John,
I think it is pretty rare that the court will not let you out based on non-payment. It would have to be 2 days before trial or something like that. The harder part is the claim by the client that you abandoned them. You should assume the $10k is all you'll get. Get monthly payments also. Good luck. Jon
>
> Hello Pat:
> The answer to your question depends.
> If I do $10,000 worth of work and resolve the case, I'd feel great.
> If I do $30,000 worth of work, the case still isn't resolved, and I
> can't get out, I'll be waving the 13th amendment in front of Judge
> Kaufman and gnashing my teeth.
> I just don't know the answer to the basic question:can I get out of
> representing adebtor in anadversary proceeding for nonpayment?
> - John D. Faucher
> 818/889-8080
>
> On 12/5/12 5:38 PM, pat@... wrote:
> >
> > John: The question is how will you feel if you never get more than the> > $10k? You can also anticipate that he will only come up with something> > less than 10k to get started, meaning you really need to be ready to
> > live with less than 10k if you take the case.
> > Pat Green
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Sender: * cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> > *Date: *Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:28:45 -0800
> > *To: *
> > *ReplyTo: * cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject: *[cdcbaa] Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
> >
> > Hello all:
> > My debtor has drawn a nondischargeability suit: it's actually a prior
> > attorney who claims he's owed $100,000 in fees, and that the debtor
> > defrauded him by sayingthat the attorney should do the work, and the
> > debtor would paysometime.
> > I think the debtor has a very good chance of ultimately
> > prevailing, and I think it's a case I'd enjoy trying. Opposing counsel> > is a whiner who's obsessed with the perceived slight of getting too
> > deep into the case without securing funding; he's also retired, so he
> > has nothing else to do than to jerk around my debtor. The elements of
> > reliance and damages will be examined excruciatingly.
> > But the same issue of nonpayment, of course, comes up on my side too:
> > the debtorsays he can scrape $10,000 together, no more, at the
> > moment. I anticipate that this will cost a lot more than $10,000.
> > Ihave always understood that, once I answer for a debtor, I'm stuck
> > representing himeven if he can't pay me any further. But I've never
> > really tested that: can I withdraw for nonpayment in an adversary
> > proceeding if I have an appropriate retainer agreement?
> > The question of whether I want to start this representation is a whole> > 'nother can of worms, of course. But just knowing that I could get
> > out if I so choose will help me with that question.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > - John D. Faucher
> > 818/889-8080
> >
> >
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Use an Evergreen Retainer. Stay on top of the fees very carefully with monthly or more frequent billings. Non payment of fees IS grounds for withdrawal by motion but not on the eve of trial. There is no "on the hook doctrine" in litigation matters.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charsetndows-1252
On the flip side, the uncollected fees would not be discharged in the underlying bankruptcy case so you may be able to arrange for payment over time.
What we do is arrange for collection by ACH debit from a checking account little by little over time. Makes for a good solution in many instances.
Jay S. Fleischman, Esq.
Shaev & Fleischman, LLP
Smart Solutions To Bill Problems
T: 626-808-4343 x704
E: jay@sflawca.com
www.ConsumerHelpCentral.com
556 S Fair Oaks Ave Ste 101-152
Pasadena CA 91105-2656
Email isn't secure, so it's not confidential. By communicating with me by email, you understand that it's not confidential.
On Dec 5, 2012, at 8:01 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
> My point is that you should assume you can't get out and that you'll spend $30k of time. If you can't live with that, don't take case. Jonathan referenced a local rule that says you can't get out. PG
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:45:04 -0800
> To:
> ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
>
>
> Hello Pat:
> The answer to your question depends.
> If I do $10,000 worth of work and resolve the case, I'd feel great.
> If I do $30,000 worth of work, the case still isn't resolved, and I can't get out, I'll be waving the 13th amendment in front of Judge Kaufman and gnashing my teeth.
> I just don't know the answer to the basic question: can I get out of representing a debtor in an adversary proceeding for nonpayment?
> - John D. Faucher
> 818/889-8080
>
>
> On 12/5/12 5:38 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
>>
>> John: The question is how will you feel if you never get more than the $10k? You can also anticipate that he will only come up with something less than 10k to get started, meaning you really need to be ready to live with less than 10k if you take the case.
>> Pat Green
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:28:45 -0800
>> To:
>> ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [cdcbaa] Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
>>
>>
>> Hello all:
>> My debtor has drawn a nondischargeability suit: it's actually a prior attorney who claims he's owed $100,000 in fees, and that the debtor defrauded him by saying that the attorney should do the work, and the debtor would pay sometime.
>> I think the debtor has a very good chance of ultimately prevailing, and I think it's a case I'd enjoy trying. Opposing counsel is a whiner who's obsessed with the perceived slight of getting too deep into the case without securing funding; he's also retired, so he has nothing else to do than to jerk around my debtor. The elements of reliance and damages will be examined excruciatingly.
>> But the same issue of nonpayment, of course, comes up on my side too: the debtor says he can scrape $10,000 together, no more, at the moment. I anticipate that this will cost a lot more than $10,000.
>> I have always understood that, once I answer for a debtor, I'm stuck representing him even if he can't pay me any further. But I've never really tested that: can I withdraw for nonpayment in an adversary proceeding if I have an appropriate retainer agreement?
>> The question of whether I want to start this representation is a whole 'nother can of worms, of course. But just knowing that I could get out if I so choose will help me with that question.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> - John D. Faucher
>> 818/889-8080
>>
>
>
>
>
charsetndows-1252
On the flip side, the uncollected fees would not be discharged in the underlying bankruptcy case so you may be able to arrange for payment over time.What we do is arrange for collection by ACH debit from a checking account little by little over time. Makes for a good solution in many instances.-------------Jay S. Fleischman, Esq.Shaev & Fleischman, LLPSmart Solutions To Bill ProblemsT: 626-808-4343 x704E: jay@sflawca.comwww.ConsumerHelpCentral.com556 S Fair Oaks Ave Ste 101-152Pasadena CA 91105-2656Email isn't secure, so it's not confidential. By communicating with me by email, you understand that it's not confidential.On Dec 5, 2012, at 8:01 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
My point is that you should assume you can't get out and that you'll spend $30k of time. If you can't live with that, don't take case. Jonathan referenced a local rule that says you can't get out. PGSent from my Vet;j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net>
Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:45:04 -0800To: <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>ReplyTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
Hello Pat:
The answer to your question depends.
If I do $10,000 worth of work and resolve the case,
I'd feel great.
If I do $30,000 worth of work, the case still isn't resolved, and
I can't get out, I'll be waving
the 13th amendment in front
of Judge Kaufman and gnashing my teeth.
I just don't know the
answer to the basic question: can I
get out of representing
a debtor in an adversary proceeding for
nonpayment?
- John D.
Faucher
818/889-8080
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello Pat:
The answer to your question depends.
If I do $10,000 worth of work and resolve the case, I'd feel great.
If I do $30,000 worth of work, the case still isn't resolved, and I
can't get out, I'll be waving the 13th amendment in front of Judge
Kaufman and gnashing my teeth.
I just don't know the answer to the basic question:can I get out of
representing adebtor in anadversary proceeding for nonpayment?
- John D. Faucher
818/889-8080
On 12/5/12 5:38 PM, pat@fitzgreenlaw.com wrote:
>
> John: The question is how will you feel if you never get more than the
> $10k? You can also anticipate that he will only come up with something
> less than 10k to get started, meaning you really need to be ready to
> live with less than 10k if you take the case.
> Pat Green
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Sender: * cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Date: *Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:28:45 -0800
> *To: *
> *ReplyTo: * cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject: *[cdcbaa] Representing the debtor in nondischargeability suit
>
> Hello all:
> My debtor has drawn a nondischargeability suit: it's actually a prior
> attorney who claims he's owed $100,000 in fees, and that the debtor
> defrauded him by sayingthat the attorney should do the work, and the
> debtor would paysometime.
> I think the debtor has a very good chance of ultimately
> prevailing, and I think it's a case I'd enjoy trying. Opposing counsel
> is a whiner who's obsessed with the perceived slight of getting too
> deep into the case without securing funding; he's also retired, so he
> has nothing else to do than to jerk around my debtor. The elements of
> reliance and damages will be examined excruciatingly.
> But the same issue of nonpayment, of course, comes up on my side too:
> the debtorsays he can scrape $10,000 together, no more, at the
> moment. I anticipate that this will cost a lot more than $10,000.
> Ihave always understood that, once I answer for a debtor, I'm stuck
> representing himeven if he can't pay me any further. But I've never
> really tested that: can I withdraw for nonpayment in an adversary
> proceeding if I have an appropriate retainer agreement?
> The question of whether I want to start this representation is a whole
> 'nother can of worms, of course. But just knowing that I could get
> out if I so choose will help me with that question.
> Thanks.
>
> - John D. Faucher
> 818/889-8080
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello all:
My debtor has drawn a nondischargeability suit: it's actually a prior
attorney who claims he's owed $100,000 in fees, and that the debtor
defrauded him by sayingthat the attorney should do the work, and the
debtor would paysometime.
I think the debtor has a very good chance of ultimately prevailing,
and I think it's a case I'd enjoy trying. Opposing counsel is a whiner
who's obsessed with the perceived slight of getting too deep into the
case without securing funding; he's also retired, so he has nothing else
to do than to jerk around my debtor. The elements of reliance and
damages will be examined excruciatingly.
But the same issue of nonpayment, of course, comes up on my side too:
the debtorsays he can scrape $10,000 together, no more, at the moment.
I anticipate that this will cost a lot more than $10,000.
Ihave always understood that, once I answer for a debtor, I'm stuck
representing himeven if he can't pay me any further. But I've never
really tested that: can I withdraw for nonpayment in an adversary
proceeding if I have an appropriate retainer agreement?
The question of whether I want to start this representation is a whole
'nother can of worms, of course. But just knowing that I could get out
if I so choose will help me with that question.
Thanks.
- John D. Faucher
818/889-8080
The post was migrated from Yahoo.