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Psychiatrist expenses on Line 31 of means test
Yes.
There will be the request for evidence, so you'll probably want to provide
that to the Chapter 7 trustee along with the tax returns.
Also, while mental illness is part of life, some future employers or
associates of the debtor may attach a stigma to it. So be sensitive to
exactly how much you reveal in the public petition.
Hale
_____
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I agree but the client should be aware of the need to document information
in connection with expenses above and beyond the means test deductions. We
will counsel client prior to filing and provide to the case trustee or UST
without putting it on ECF.
If locally this can be handled by showing cancel led checks it is proof
that LA is often a more forgiving place than is NY.
On Jan 5, 2013 5:20 PM, "Patrick T. Green" wrote:
> **
>
>
> I am chiming in because the thread started with specific info about an
> unnamed clients protected health information (PHI) and I am concerned that
> we are careful about we disclose at every level of the process.****
>
> ** **
>
> While the bankruptcy process requires complete disclosure, there are also
> fed and CA laws protecting PHI. While ultimately you may need some level
> of documentation, the type of treatment is beyond what we should disclose
> and I do not think we should be setting precedent that trustees, the UST or
> the court has a right to know what our clients are being treated for.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think it enough to say in B22 that the dollar amount is for uninsured
> medical expenses. If the trustee wants documentation, then the checks or
> bank statements showing the debits should suffice. If the trustee wants to
> know about medical necessity, then the letter should only say that the
> client/patient is receiving medically necessary care. The type of treatment
> is not anyones business.****
>
> ** **
>
> The client needs to know that what goes into the petition is public
> record, so at that level there should be no specific disclosure unless the
> client is very comfortable with it and the client should not agree to
> specific disclosure because they are afraid they wont get their ch 7.****
>
> ** **
>
> If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.****
>
> ** **
>
> Pat****
>
> ** **
>
> Patrick T. Green****
>
> Attorney at Law****
>
> Fitzgerald & Green****
>
> 1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206****
>
> Pasadena, CA 91106****
>
> Tel: 626-449-8433****
>
> Fax: 626-449-0565****
>
> pat@fitzgreenlaw.com****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Jay Fleischman
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 05, 2013 4:36 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Psychiatrist expenses on Line 31 of means test****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> We've done it in our NY cases. Make sure you have a diagnostic letter
> from the treating psychiatrist to prove reasonable necessity.****
>
> On Jan 5, 2013 11:19 AM, "Mark J. Markus" wrote:****
>
> Has anyone successfully used psychiatric expenses (both counseling and
> meds) in the "additional health expenses" on Line 31 of the means test? I
> have a client being treated for clinical depression that has $1,600 a month
> in such expenses that are not reimbursed by insurance or covered by her
> employer's "cafeteria plan". It would make the difference between being
> able to do a Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13.****
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
>
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means
> at
> http://www.bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/20 ... efinition/
> )
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
>
I agree but the client should be aware of the need to document information in connection with expenses above and beyond the means test deductions. We will counsel client prior to filing and provide to the case trustee or UST without putting it on ECF.
If locally this can be handled by showing cancel led checks it is proof that LA is often a more forgiving place than is NY.
On Jan 5, 2013 5:20 PM, "Patrick T. Green" <pat@fitzgreenlaw.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I am chiming in because the thread started with specific info about an
unnamed client's protected health information (PHI) and I am concerned that
we are careful about we disclose at every level of the process.
While the bankruptcy process requires complete disclosure, there are also
fed and CA laws protecting PHI. While ultimately you may need some level of
documentation, the type of treatment is beyond what we should disclose and I
do not think we should be setting precedent that trustees, the UST or the
court has a right to know what our clients are being treated for.
I think it enough to say in B22 that the dollar amount is for uninsured
medical expenses. If the trustee wants documentation, then the checks or
bank statements showing the debits should suffice. If the trustee wants to
know about medical necessity, then the letter should only say that the
client/patient is receiving medically necessary care. The type of treatment
is not anyone's business.
The client needs to know that what goes into the petition is public record,
so at that level there should be no specific disclosure unless the client is
very comfortable with it and the client should not agree to specific
disclosure because they are afraid they won't get their ch 7.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
yet another piece of evidence to prove that the only true Major Medical
Health Insurance in the USA is bankruptcy...
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Shannon Doyle wrote:
> **
>
>
> That bill alone would be enough to make me depressed J. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Shannon A. Doyle****
>
> Attorney at Law****
>
> [image: small logo]****
>
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250****
>
> West Covina, CA 91791-1600****
>
> Tel: (626) 646-2555****
>
> Fax: (626) 332-8644****
>
> www.blclaw.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Mark J. Markus
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:20 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Psychiatrist expenses on Line 31 of means test****
>
> ** **
>
> Has anyone successfully used psychiatric expenses (both counseling and
> meds) in the "additional health expenses" on Line 31 of the means test? I
> have a client being treated for clinical depression that has $1,600 a month
> in such expenses that are not reimbursed by insurance or covered by her
> employer's "cafeteria plan". It would make the difference between being
> able to do a Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13.****
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
>
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means
> at
> http://www.bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/20 ... efinition/
> )
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.**
> **
>
> ** **
>
>
>
yet another piece of evidence to prove that the only true Major Medical Health Insurance in the USA is bankruptcy...<sdoyle@blclaw.com> wrote:
That bill alone would be enough to make me depressed J.
Shannon A. DoyleAttorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644www.blclaw.com
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark J. Markus
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 11:20 AMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] Psychiatrist expenses on Line 31 of means test
Has anyone successfully used psychiatric expenses (both counseling and meds) in the "additional health expenses" on Line 31 of the means test? I have a client being treated for clinical depression that has $1,600 a month in such expenses that are not reimbursed by insurance or covered by her employer's "cafeteria plan". It would make the difference between being able to do a Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13.
*************************Mark J. MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of Legal SpecializationThis Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at h
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
We've done it in our NY cases. Make sure you have a diagnostic letter from
the treating psychiatrist to prove reasonable necessity.
On Jan 5, 2013 11:19 AM, "Mark J. Markus" wrote:
> Has anyone successfully used psychiatric expenses (both counseling and
> meds) in the "additional health expenses" on Line 31 of the means test? I
> have a client being treated for clinical depression that has $1,600 a month
> in such expenses that are not reimbursed by insurance or covered by her
> employer's "cafeteria plan". It would make the difference between being
> able to do a Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13.
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
>
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means
> at
> http://www.bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/20 ... efinition/
> )
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
We've done it in our NY cases. Make sure you have a diagnostic letter from the treating psychiatrist to prove reasonable necessity.
On Jan 5, 2013 11:19 AM, "Mark J. Markus" <bklawr@yahoo.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
That bill alone would be enough to make me depressed J.
Shannon A. Doyle
Attorney at Law
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791-1600
Tel: (626) 646-2555
Fax: (626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Has anyone successfully used psychiatric expenses (both counseling
and meds) in the "additional health expenses" on Line 31 of the
means test? I have a client being treated for clinical depression
that has $1,600 a month in such expenses that are not reimbursed by
insurance or covered by her employer's "cafeteria plan". It would
make the difference between being able to do a Chapter 7 vs. Chapter 13.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California
Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at
The post was migrated from Yahoo.