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Student Loan Debt
I have a client with similar facts and we are preparing to file the Chapter 7 case to discharge credit card debt so she can focus on paying the student loans.
We are prepared to show the amount of the student loans that the debtor used for tuition, books, commuting to campus, etc. for the non-consumer debt argument.
Peter M. Lively, J.D., M.B.A.
Law Office of Peter M. Lively * Personal Financial Law Center I
11268 Washington Boulevard, Suite 203, Culver City, California 90230-4647
Telephone: (310) 391-2400 * Toll Free: (800) 307-3328 * Fax: (310) 391-2462
On Monday, October 20, 2014 9:07 AM, "nath don rogerclim@gmail.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
Given how common I imagine the scenario of PC's seeking to avoid the means test through a big pile of student debt should be, I am surprised how hypothetical and uncertain this discussion has been. If these cases haven't yet arrived, my money is that there is a flood of them around the bend.
What is the local practice? I have an upcoming case in which my PC is an unbarred lawyer with loads of law school debt. She earns more than the median income. One available approach would be for her to omit the means test entirely while providing some kind of supplemental declaration stating that she sought her law degree for a business purpose which clearly seems satisfied. Another approach would seem to be to file the means test but then to deduct the student loan payments to bring her into a 7.
Is one approach preferable/lower risk than the other?
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jay Fleischman bankruptcy@gmail.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>In the case of In re Kelly, 841 F.2d 908 (9th Cir. 1988), the court determined that if a debt isnt incurred for business ventures or other profit-seeking activities then it is considered to be consumer debt. This reasoning was followed in In re Price, 353 F.3d 1135 (9th Cir. 2004), which confirmed that the purpose of the debt is the determining factor.
>
>With that in mind, I'd look into your debtor's rationale for getting the master's degree. Was it to advance in his or her chosen profession? If so, I'd argue that it isn't a consumer debt.
>
>
>-------------
>Jay S. Fleischman, Esq.
>Shaev & Fleischman, LLP
>
>
>I help people get smart solutions to their bill problems.
>
>
>http://www.consumerhelpcentral.com/
>
>
>556 S Fair Oaks Ave Ste 101-152
>Pasadena CA 91105-2656
>
>
>T: 626-808-4343 x704
>
>
>Email isn't secure, so it's not confidential. By communicating with me by email, you understand that it's not confidential.
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Given how common I imagine the scenario of PC's seeking to avoid the means
test through a big pile of student debt should be, I am surprised how
hypothetical and uncertain this discussion has been. If these cases haven't
yet arrived, my money is that there is a flood of them around the bend.
What is the local practice? I have an upcoming case in which my PC is an
unbarred lawyer with loads of law school debt. She earns more than the
median income. One available approach would be for her to omit the means
test entirely while providing some kind of supplemental declaration stating
that she sought her law degree for a business purpose which clearly seems
satisfied. Another approach would seem to be to file the means test but
then to deduct the student loan payments to bring her into a 7.
Is one approach preferable/lower risk than the other?
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jay Fleischman bankruptcy@gmail.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> In the case of In re Kelly, 841 F.2d 908 (9th Cir. 1988), the court
> determined that if a debt isnt incurred for business ventures or other
> profit-seeking activities then it is considered to be consumer debt. This
> reasoning was followed in In re Price, 353 F.3d 1135 (9th Cir. 2004), which
> confirmed that the purpose of the debt is the determining factor.
>
> With that in mind, I'd look into your debtor's rationale for getting the
> master's degree. Was it to advance in his or her chosen profession? If so,
> I'd argue that it isn't a consumer debt.
>
> -------------
> Jay S. Fleischman, Esq.
> Shaev & Fleischman, LLP
>
> I help people get smart solutions to their bill problems.
>
> http://www.ConsumerHelpCentral.com
>
> 556 S Fair Oaks Ave Ste 101-152
> Pasadena CA 91105-2656
>
> T: 626-808-4343 x704
>
> Email isn't secure, so it's not confidential. By communicating with me by
> email, you understand that it's not confidential.
>
>
>
Given how common I imagine the scenario of PC's seeking to avoid the means test through a big pile of student debt should be, I am surprised how hypothetical and uncertain this discussion has been. If these cases haven't yet arrived, my money is that there is a flood of them around the bend.What is the local practice? I have an upcoming case in which my PC is an unbarred lawyer with loads of law school debt. She earns more than the median income. One available approach would be for her to omit the means test entirely while providing some kind of supplemental declaration stating that she sought her law degree for a business purpose which clearly seems satisfied. Another approach would seem to be to file the means test but then to deduct the student loan payments to bring her into a 7.Is one approach preferable/lower risk than the other?On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jay Fleischman <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
In the case of In re Kelly, 841 F.2d 908 (9th Cir. 1988), the court determined that if a debt isnt incurred for business ventures or other profit-seeking activities then it is considered to be consumer debt. This reasoning was followed in In re Price, 353 F.3d 1135 (9th Cir. 2004), which confirmed that the purpose of the debt is the determining factor.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
In the case of In re Kelly, 841 F.2d 908 (9th Cir. 1988), the court
determined that if a debt isnt incurred for business ventures or other
profit-seeking activities then it is considered to be consumer debt. This
reasoning was followed in In re Price, 353 F.3d 1135 (9th Cir. 2004), which
confirmed that the purpose of the debt is the determining factor.
With that in mind, I'd look into your debtor's rationale for getting the
master's degree. Was it to advance in his or her chosen profession? If so,
I'd argue that it isn't a consumer debt.
Jay S. Fleischman, Esq.
Shaev & Fleischman, LLP
I help people get smart solutions to their bill problems.
http://www.ConsumerHelpCentral.com
556 S Fair Oaks Ave Ste 101-152
Pasadena CA 91105-2656
T: 626-808-4343 x704
Email isn't secure, so it's not confidential. By communicating with me by
email, you understand that it's not confidential.
In the case of In re Kelly, 841 F.2d 908 (9th Cir. 1988), the court determined that if a debt isnt incurred for business ventures or other profit-seeking activities then it is considered to be consumer debt. This reasoning was followed in In re Price, 353 F.3d 1135 (9th Cir. 2004), which confirmed that the purpose of the debt is the determining factor.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I believe the breakdown is the portion used for tuition and books is nonconsumer, the rest is consumer.
Mark Jessee
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 6, 2014, at 1:59 PM, "'Desiree Causey' causeylaw@gmail.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> Another attorney and I disagree on this point. There is outstanding student loans (of the Debtor getting a masters degree). I say it should be characterized as consumer debt, the other attorney says it is not consumer debt.
>
>
>
> Who is correct?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
> causeylaw@gmail.com
>
>
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
>
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Reply-To: "Desiree Causey"
X-Original-Return-Path: "Desiree Causey"
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Another attorney and I disagree on this point. There is outstanding student
loans (of the Debtor getting a masters degree). I say it should be
characterized as consumer debt, the other attorney says it is not consumer
debt.
Who is correct?
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC
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information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
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Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
X-Original-Return-Path: "Desiree Causey"
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Another attorney and I disagree on this point. There is outstanding student
loans (of the Debtor getting a masters degree). I say it should be
characterized as consumer debt, the other attorney says it is not consumer
debt.
Who is correct?
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC
2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is
strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Colleagues,
I just spoke with Claudine yesterday, who is looking to speak with debtors
facing student loan issues. If you have a client that matches her inquiry
below, please feel free to reach out to her directly.
Best Regards,
Christine
Date: Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 11:37 AM
Subject: Student Loan Debt
To: "attorneychristine@gmail.com"
**********
Christine,****
** **
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me about this issue. As
I mentioned on the phone I am actively looking for people who are going
through student loan debt problems who are willing to tell their stories.
Ideally it would be someone who has graduated recently but is simply unable
to keep up and who studied a subject that is usually marketable in terms of
finding work (tech, business, engineering computer science, accounting,
nursing, etc)****
** **
If you need more details of information regarding my request to speak with
a client please do not hesitate to email of call me.****
** **
Again, thanks for your time today.****
** **
Best,****
Claudine Ebeid****
*N**P**R* | Claudine Ebeid | All Things Considered | 202-513-2892 |
cebeid@npr.org | ****
NPR is Moving: As of April 1, our new headquarters address is ****1111
North Capitol St., NE**, **Washington**, **DC** ** 20002********
** **
Christine A. Wilton, Esq.
Law Office of Christine A. Wilton
*Our New Office Location:
12650 Hoover Street
Garden Grove, CA 92841*
*Mailing:*
4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 335
Lakewood, CA 90712
Office: 877-631-2220
Cell: 562-824-7563
Fax: 1-636-212-7078
Email: attorneychristine@gmail.com
Web: www.attorneychristine.com
Blog: www.losangelesbankruptcylawmonitor.com
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Colleagues,I just spoke with Claudine yesterday, who is looking to speak with debtors facing student loan issues. If you have a client that matches her inquiry below, please feel free to reach out to her directly.
Best Regards,Christine------audine Ebeid <CEbeid@npr.org>,
Date: Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 11:37 AMSubject: Student Loan DebtTo: "attorneychristine@gmail.com" <attorneychristine@gmail.com>
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