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are emergency medical debts "consumer debt"
I have never seen the UST take action against a debtor driven to bankruptcy by medical bills.
Anyone else seen this?
d
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:06 PM, "dbcommons" wrote:
> PC had appendicitis about 4 hours after his medical insurance expired (he thought he had new insurance but they found a way of denying it--does not appear to be a claim there). Apendectomy was severely complicated by in-hospital infection and PC ended up in hospital for 7 days. Don't know total cost but expecting $100-200k in charges. PC's income is above median and he probably exceeds Ch13 debt limits (including a very large parent plus student loan).
>
> I have researched under just about every topic I can think of and have found nothing on point. Are non-elective medical costs incurred for a personal purpose? If, once he checked into the emergency room, all the major decisions were made by the docs, was he even involved in the process of "incurring" the resulting debt?
>
> Interesting set of facts; I would value any input from this learned group.
>
> David Commons
>
>
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Unless I have to appear at the 341, then it is extra - being a potted plant
with a pen is a high level skill and I like to be paid accordingly.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
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Pat, I thought that was what you charged. At least that's what I tell
everyone J
I'm kidding.
M. Erik Clark
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.BLClaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
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If you do not get through on a 7:
These types of bills are just made up, i.e. when there is no insurance the
hospitals and providers throw out a number that makes them feel good, which
is five to twenty times what the insurers they contract with would pay. If
you discount the medical bills by 80%, then they may not exceed the debt
limits.
Sort of like us saying, yes that chapter 7 will be 15K, thank you very much.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
That's very encouraging to hear. It makes sense to me; I just haven't been able to find a court that's ruled on it.
>
> I had a case in riverside shortly after the law change where the client had incurred over 400k in medical charges after falling from is harley at highway speed. Auto insurance refused to pay because the debtor was dui. Debtor and wife were over median income. Oust in riverside thought about it for a while then let go. I just had a case in the valley where a way over median income debtor had no health insurance and suffered a heart attack. Medicals over 400k. Did not even hear from oust. Trustee agreed it was not consumer debt. > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sender: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:31:43
> To:
> Reply-To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] are emergency medical debts "consumer debt"
>
> *101(8)*
>
> A consumer debt is a debt you incur for your personal family needs, living
> expense and so forth. Focus on the reason you incurred the debt in the
> first place.
>
>
> 707(b)(1)
>
> The Bankruptcy Code as interpreted states if you don't have primarily (more
> than 50%) consumer debts, the means test simply does not apply to you.
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM, dbcommons wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > PC had appendicitis about 4 hours after his medical insurance expired (he
> > thought he had new insurance but they found a way of denying it--does not
> > appear to be a claim there). Apendectomy was severely complicated by
> > in-hospital infection and PC ended up in hospital for 7 days. Don't know
> > total cost but expecting $100-200k in charges. PC's income is above median
> > and he probably exceeds Ch13 debt limits (including a very large parent
> > plus student loan).
> >
> > I have researched under just about every topic I can think of and have
> > found nothing on point. Are non-elective medical costs incurred for a
> > personal purpose? If, once he checked into the emergency room, all the
> > major decisions were made by the docs, was he even involved in the process
> > of "incurring" the resulting debt?
> >
> > Interesting set of facts; I would value any input from this learned group.
> >
> > David Commons
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Christine A. Wilton, Esq.
> Law Office of Christine A. Wilton
>
> *Our New Office Location:
> 12650 Hoover Street
> Garden Grove, CA 92841*
>
> *Mailing:*
> 4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 335
> Lakewood, CA 90712
>
> Office: 877-631-2220
> Cell: 562-824-7563
> Fax: 1-636-212-7078
> Email: attorneychristine@...
> Web: www.attorneychristine.com
> Blog: www.losangelesbankruptcylawmonitor.com
> ***************************
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> is intended solely for review by the intended recipient(s) and may contain
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> be imposed on the taxpayer. (The foregoing legend has been affixed pursuant
> to U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax practice.)
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
*101(8)*
A consumer debt is a debt you incur for your personal family needs, living
expense and so forth. Focus on the reason you incurred the debt in the
first place.
707(b)(1)
The Bankruptcy Code as interpreted states if you dont have primarily (more
than 50%) consumer debts, the means test simply does not apply to you.
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM, dbcommons wrote:
> **
>
>
> PC had appendicitis about 4 hours after his medical insurance expired (he
> thought he had new insurance but they found a way of denying it--does not
> appear to be a claim there). Apendectomy was severely complicated by
> in-hospital infection and PC ended up in hospital for 7 days. Don't know
> total cost but expecting $100-200k in charges. PC's income is above median
> and he probably exceeds Ch13 debt limits (including a very large parent
> plus student loan).
>
> I have researched under just about every topic I can think of and have
> found nothing on point. Are non-elective medical costs incurred for a
> personal purpose? If, once he checked into the emergency room, all the
> major decisions were made by the docs, was he even involved in the process
> of "incurring" the resulting debt?
>
> Interesting set of facts; I would value any input from this learned group.
>
> David Commons
>
>
>
Christine A. Wilton, Esq.
Law Office of Christine A. Wilton
*Our New Office Location:
12650 Hoover Street
Garden Grove, CA 92841*
*Mailing:*
4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 335
Lakewood, CA 90712
Office: 877-631-2220
Cell: 562-824-7563
Fax: 1-636-212-7078
Email: attorneychristine@gmail.com
Web: www.attorneychristine.com
Blog: www.losangelesbankruptcylawmonitor.com
***************************
Confidentiality and Privilege. This e-mail message, including attachments,
is intended solely for review by the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. Review by anyone other than the
intended recipient(s) shall not constitute a waiver of any ATTORNEY-CLIENT
PRIVILEGE or ATTORNEY WORK PRODUCT PROTECTION that may apply to this
communication. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
Tax Advice Disclosure. Any tax information or written tax advice contained
in this email message, including attachments, is not intended to and cannot
be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may
be imposed on the taxpayer. (The foregoing legend has been affixed pursuant
to U.S. Treasury Regulations governing tax practice.)
101(8)A consumer debt is a debt you incur for your personal family needs,
living expense and so forth. Focus on the reason you incurred the debt
in the first place.
707(b)(1)The Bankruptcy Code as interpreted states if you dont have
primarily (more than 50%) consumer debts, the means test simply does not
apply to you. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM, dbcommons <david@commonsnet.com> wrote:
PC had appendicitis about 4 hours after his medical insurance expired (he thought he had new insurance but they found a way of denying it--does not appear to be a claim there). Apendectomy was severely complicated by in-hospital infection and PC ended up in hospital for 7 days. Don't know total cost but expecting $100-200k in charges. PC's income is above median and he probably exceeds Ch13 debt limits (including a very large parent plus student loan).
I have researched under just about every topic I can think of and have found nothing on point. Are non-elective medical costs incurred for a personal purpose? If, once he checked into the emergency room, all the major decisions were made by the docs, was he even involved in the process of "incurring" the resulting debt?
Interesting set of facts; I would value any input from this learned group.
David Commons
-- Christine A. Wilton, Esq.Law Office of Christine A. WiltonOur New Office Location:12650 Hoover StreetGarden Grove, CA 92841Mailing:
4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 335Lakewood, CA 90712Office: 877-631-2220Cell: 562-824-7563Fax: 1-636-212-7078Email:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
PC had appendicitis about 4 hours after his medical insurance expired (he thought he had new insurance but they found a way of denying it--does not appear to be a claim there). Apendectomy was severely complicated by in-hospital infection and PC ended up in hospital for 7 days. Don't know total cost but expecting $100-200k in charges. PC's income is above median and he probably exceeds Ch13 debt limits (including a very large parent plus student loan).
I have researched under just about every topic I can think of and have found nothing on point. Are non-elective medical costs incurred for a personal purpose? If, once he checked into the emergency room, all the major decisions were made by the docs, was he even involved in the process of "incurring" the resulting debt?
Interesting set of facts; I would value any input from this learned group.
David Commons
The post was migrated from Yahoo.