.jpg)
Standing to stall foreclosure sale
The bk is in place. I will be filing my motion for approval of sale and at that time, I will disclose the name of the buyer. I think he will go around my debtors and sabotage the deal. This is an aggressive creditor who bought the note within two months of the foreclosure sale. There is no language in the loan docs as to what he is claiming.
Stella
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Did you read the note and dead of trust with this creditor to see if they contain such language entitling the creditor to know the buyer's identity? I would understand if this was a loan assumption situation, but not where
the loan is paid off in full. Is the bankruptcy case still open? If itis and you are going to sell property with Court approval, you are going to
need to disclose the buyer anyway. The creditor's attorney seems way offbase, but if you have to disclose the buyers identity anyway what is the harm? Do you think he will intentionally try to sabotage the deal and risk
tort exposure?
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENTOF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE
NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THISMESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
In a message dated 8/12/2013 2:40:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
This is even getting better. I provided the creditors attorney with a
redacted copy of the purchase agreement of the property to get him to go
away. He is getting fully paid off through the sale. He now claims thatpursuant to the loan documents, he is entitled to know who the buyer is and
if I do not give it to him, he will notice my clients deposition. I
have read numerous loan documents over the years and I have yet to see onewhere a lender is entitled to know who is buyer the property upon which they
have a security interest.
Stella Havkin
jesseelaw@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:54 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Standing to stall foreclosure sale
Sounds like he is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! Peopleborrow money as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time.
Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they
don't want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require theborrowers to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then
the borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of theirrevocable living trust.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
_havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) writes:
Thank you. I knew this but he is now claiming bank fraud in taking out theloan in the name if the trust. Good luck in suing my 80 year old debtor.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, _jesseelaw@aol.com_ (mailto:jesseelaw@aol.com) wrote:
Stella:
I presume this is a revocable living trust in CA. If so the creditorrepresentative is clearly out of his/her depth! There is no difference
between an individual debtor and the debtors revocable living trust as to
creditors during the debtors lifetime pursuant to CA Probate Code 18200. CA
Probate Code 18201 makes clear that all of a debtors assets held in a
revocable living trust are eligible for the same exemptions. A debtorrevocable living trust is for the benefit of the debtor during the debtorlifetime, so that property interest is always an asset of the bankruptcy
estate under Section 341(a).
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 11:59:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
_havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) writes:
I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My
debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that Ihave to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need
law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any
action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
Sylvia:
The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against
nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor
stay applies.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or
commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer
debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the
debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7or 11 of this title.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or
commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer
debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the
debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7of this title.
Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
note, codebtor has no hyphen.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503
310-328-1001-voice
On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
Hello Listserv members:
I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but
title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for
early next month.
I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executedby my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
Silvia
Did you read the note and dead of trust with this creditor to see if they
contain such language entitling the creditor to know the buyer's identity?
I would understand if this was a loan assumption situation, but not where the
loan is paid off in full. Is the bankruptcy case still open?
If it is and you are going to sell property with Court approval, you are going
to need to disclose the buyer anyway. The creditor's attorney seems way
off base, but if you have to disclose the buyers identity anyway what is the
harm? Do you think he will intentionally try to sabotage the
deal and risk tort exposure?
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY
THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED
TO BE PRIVILEGED BY LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE,
DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE
THIS MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
In a message dated 8/12/2013 2:40:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
This is even
getting better. I provided the creditors attorney with a redacted copy
of the purchase agreement of the property to get him to go away. He is
getting fully paid off through the sale. He now claims that
pursuant to the loan documents, he is entitled to know who the buyer is and
if I do not give it to him, he will notice my clients deposition.
I have read numerous loan documents over the years and I have yet to see
one where a lender is entitled to know who is buyer the property upon which
they have a security interest.
Stella
Havkin
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jesseelaw@aol.comSent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:54
PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa]
Standing to stall foreclosure sale
Sounds like he
is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! People borrow money
as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time. Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they don't
want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require the borrowers
to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then the
borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of their
revocable living trust.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.
Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message
dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
This is even getting better. I provided the creditors attorney with a redacted copy of the purchase agreement of the property to get him to go away. He is getting fully paid off through the sale. He now claims that pursuant to the loan documents, he is entitled to know who the buyer is and if I do not give it to him, he will notice my clientnts over the years and I have yet to see one where a lender is entitled to know who is buyer the property upon which they have a security interest.
Stella Havkin
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}
Thank you. I was in the middle of a wedding while this was all going down. I communicated with the creditor, sent him some law and he seems to be taking a pause. He now wants to review the trust and underlying financing documents. The crazy thing is that the the debtors are selling their property through the bk and he is getting fully paid. This is actually a surplus estate. He should be just quiet and collect his money.
Stella
>Sent: Aug 7, 2013 9:31 PM To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Standing to stall foreclosure sale
Stella: The creditor is full of himself. If the debtor has an interest in the trust, the debtor's filing will invoke the auto stay. Only a business trust can file a bk. Don't let the creditor distract you. The filing by the trust will not be valid, you must file the debtor who has a beneficial interest.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
On Aug 7, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Stella Havkin <havkinlaw@earthlink.net> wrote:
I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay. Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa <cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Sylvia:
The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies.
1301. Stay of action against codebtor
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title.
1201. Stay of action against codebtor
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.
Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
note, codebtor has no hyphen.
dDennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" <bombalier@aol.com> wrote:
Hello Listserv members:I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for early next month.I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executed by my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title? Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.Silvia
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Stella: The creditor is full of himself. If the debtor has an interest in the trust, the debtor's filing will invoke the auto stay. Only a business trust can file a bk. Don't let the creditor distract you. The filing by the trust will not be valid, you must file the debtor who has a beneficial interest.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
On Aug 7, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Stella Havkin wrote:
> I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.>
> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
>
>>
>> Sylvia:
>>
>> The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies.
>>
>> 1301. Stay of action against codebtor
>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title.
>>
>>
>> 1201. Stay of action against codebtor
>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.
>>
>> Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
>>
>> note, codebtor has no hyphen.
>>
>> d
>>
>> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
>>
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hello Listserv members:
>>>
>>> I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for early next month.
>>>
>>> I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executed by my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
>>>
>>> Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
>>>
>>> Silvia
>>>
>
>
On Aug 7, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Stella Havkin <havkinlaw@earthlink.net> wrote:
I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay. Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhoneOn Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa <cdcbaamailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Sylvia:The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies. 1301. Stay of action against codebtor(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title. 1201. Stay of action against codebtor(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unlessbt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.note, codebtor has no hyphen.dDennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voiceOn Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" <bombalier@aol.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="UTF-8"
The most likely answer is that someone told them they needed one. Have they filed income tax returns (form 1041) for the trust?
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Both alive and always been revocable. Do not know why they have a tax I'd number.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 10:47 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
> If it is a revocable living trust then it uses the settlor's SSN, not an EIN as everything is reported on the settlor's individual tax return. An irrevocable trust would use and EIN. Was this a situation where there was a H & W as settlor of the trust and one spouse died? Then only the portion of the trust that remains revocable is a revocable living trust. Any amount not distributed to the survivor in the survivor's trust is irrevocable and would use an EIN.
>
> If you have not done so already, review the trust to make sure it is in fact revocable by the debtor.
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2013 2:37:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>
> Does the fact that the trust has a tax id number, make any difference?
>
> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:54 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like he is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! People borrow money as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time. Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they don't want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require the borrowers to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then the borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of their revocable living trust.
>>
>>
>> Mark T. Jessee
>> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>>
>> Thank you. I knew this but he is now claiming bank fraud in taking out the loan in the name if the trust. Good luck in suing my 80 year old debtor.
>>
>> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>>
>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stella:
>>>
>>> I presume this is a revocable living trust in CA. If so the creditorference between an individual debtor and the debtors revocable living trust as to creditors during the debtors lifetime pursuant to CA Probate Code 18200. CA Probate Code 18201 makes clear that all of a debtors assets held in a revocable living trust are eligible for the same exemptions. A debtors revocable living trust is for the benefit of the debtor during the debtors lifetime, so that property interest is always an asset of the bankruptcy estate under Section 341(a).
>>>
>>> Mark T. Jessee
>>> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>>> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>>> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>>> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>>> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/7/2013 11:59:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>>>
>>> I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia:
>>>>
>>>> The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies.
>>>>
>>>> 1301. Stay of action against codebtor
>>>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>>>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>>>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1201. Stay of action against codebtor
>>>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>>>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>>>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.
>>>>
>>>> Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
>>>>
>>>> note, codebtor has no hyphen.
>>>>
>>>> d
>>>>
>>>> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Listserv members:
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for early next month.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executed by my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
>>>>>
>>>>> Silvia
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
If it is a revocable living trust then it uses the settlor's SSN, not an EIN as everything is reported on the settlor's individual tax return. An irrevocable trust would use and EIN. Was this a situation where there was a
H & W as settlor of the trust and one spouse died? Then only the portionof the trust that remains revocable is a revocable living trust. Any amount
not distributed to the survivor in the survivor's trust is irrevocable andwould use an EIN.
If you have not done so already, review the trust to make sure it is in fact revocable by the debtor.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 2:37:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
Does the fact that the trust has a tax id number, make any difference?
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:54 PM, _jesseelaw@aol.com_ (mailto:jesseelaw@aol.com) wrote:
Sounds like he is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! Peopleborrow money as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time.
Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they
don't want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require theborrowers to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then
the borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of theirrevocable living trust.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
_havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) writes:
Thank you. I knew this but he is now claiming bank fraud in taking out theloan in the name if the trust. Good luck in suing my 80 year old debtor.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, _jesseelaw@aol.com_ (mailto:jesseelaw@aol.com) wrote:
Stella:
I presume this is a revocable living trust in CA. If so the creditorrepresentative is clearly out of his/her depth! There is no difference bet
ween an individual debtor and the debtors revocable living trust as to
creditors during the debtors lifetime pursuant to CA Probate Code 18200. CA
Probate Code 18201 makes clear that all of a debtors assets held in a
revocable living trust are eligible for the same exemptions. A debtorrevocable living trust is for the benefit of the debtor during the debtorlifetime, so that property interest is always an asset of the bankruptcy
estate under Section 341(a).
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 11:59:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
_havkinlaw@earthlink.net_ (mailto:havkinlaw@earthlink.net) writes:
I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My
debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I
have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need
law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any
action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
Sylvia:
The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against
nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor
stay applies.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after
the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence
or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer
debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the
debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinarycourse of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7or 11 of this title.
(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after
the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence
or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer
debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the
debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
(1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinarycourse of such individual's business; or
(2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7of this title.
Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would
opine the codebtor stay applies.
note, codebtor has no hyphen.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503
310-328-1001-voice
On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
Hello Listserv members:
I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but
title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for
early next month.
I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executedby my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, wouldthe filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
Silvia
If it is a revocable living trust then it uses the settlor's SSN, not an
EIN as everything is reported on the settlor's individual tax return. An
irrevocable trust would use and EIN. Was this a situation where there
was a H & W as settlor of the trust and one spouse died? Then only the
portion of the trust that remains revocable is a revocable livingtrust. Any amount not distributed to the survivor in the survivor's trust
is irrevocable and would use an EIN.
If you have not done so already, review the trust to make sure it is in
fact revocable by the debtor.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/7/2013 2:37:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
Does the fact that the trust has a tax id number, make any
difference?Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:54 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
Sounds like he is out of his
depth on the definition of fraud too! People borrow money as trustee's
of revocable living trusts all the time. Usually lenders are too
lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they don't want to pay a
lawyer to review the trust documents) and require the borrowers to reconvey
the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then the borrower is
supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of their
revocable living trust.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
He is a lawyer which is why he thinks he knows everything.
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 10:36 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
> Sounds like the creditor is a private lender too cheap to hire an attorney.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry Webb
>
> State Bar of California 229344
>
> Central District California
>
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>
> Check out my Blog
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry@webbklaw. com
>
> Law Offices of Larry Webb
>
> 484 Mobil Ste 43
>
> Camarillo Ca 93010
>
>
>
> P 805.987.1400
>
> F 805.987.2866
>
> C 805.750.2150
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
jesseelaw@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:54 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Standing to stall foreclosure sale
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds like he is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! People borrow money as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time. Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they don't want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require the borrowers to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then the borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of their revocable living trust.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>
> Thank you. I knew this but he is now claiming bank fraud in taking out the loan in the name if the trust. Good luck in suing my 80 year old debtor.
>
> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Stella:
>
>
>
> I presume this is a revocable living trust in CA. If so the creditorence between an individual debtor and the debtors revocable living trust as to creditors during the debtors lifetime pursuant to CA Probate Code 18200. CA Probate Code 18201 makes clear that all of a debtors assets held in a revocable living trust are eligible for the same exemptions. A debtors revocable living trust is for the benefit of the debtor during the debtors lifetime, so that property interest is always an asset of the bankruptcy estate under Section 341(a).
>
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2013 11:59:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>
> I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.>
> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
>
>
>
> Sylvia:
>
>
>
> The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies.
>
>
>
> 1301. Stay of action against codebtor
>
> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>
> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>
> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title.
>
>
>
>
>
> 1201. Stay of action against codebtor
>
> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>
> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>
> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.
>
>
>
> Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
>
>
>
> note, codebtor has no hyphen.
>
>
>
> d
>
>
> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Listserv members:
>
> I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for early next month.
>
> I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executed by my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
>
> Silvia
>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Does the fact that the trust has a tax id number, make any difference?
Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:54 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
> Sounds like he is out of his depth on the definition of fraud too! People borrow money as trustee's of revocable living trusts all the time. Usually lenders are too lazy to allow them to borrow through the trust (they don't want to pay a lawyer to review the trust documents) and require the borrowers to reconvey the property back to themselves prior to lending. Then the borrower is supposed to convey again to themselves as trustee of their revocable living trust.
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2013 12:43:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>
> Thank you. I knew this but he is now claiming bank fraud in taking out the loan in the name if the trust. Good luck in suing my 80 year old debtor.
>
> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, jesseelaw@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Stella:
>>
>> I presume this is a revocable living trust in CA. If so the creditorence between an individual debtor and the debtors revocable living trust as to creditors during the debtors lifetime pursuant to CA Probate Code 18200. CA Probate Code 18201 makes clear that all of a debtors assets held in a revocable living trust are eligible for the same exemptions. A debtors revocable living trust is for the benefit of the debtor during the debtors lifetime, so that property interest is always an asset of the bankruptcy estate under Section 341(a).
>>
>> Mark T. Jessee
>> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/7/2013 11:59:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, havkinlaw@earthlink.net writes:
>>
>> I am out if town. I need help quickly. A very aggressive creditor. My debtors hold property in a living trust. The creditor is claiming that I have to file a petition for the living trust not just the debtors. I need law on the fact that the property is property of the Bk estate and any action taken against the property would be in violation of the automatic stay.
>>
>> Sent from my Stella Havkin's IPhone
>>
>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:42 PM, cdcbaa wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sylvia:
>>>
>>> The only codebtor stay are in chapters 12 & 13. Foreclosure against nondebtor would not be stayed in a 7 or an 11, only in 13, and only if codebtor stay applies.
>>>
>>> 1301. Stay of action against codebtor
>>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 or 11 of this title.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1201. Stay of action against codebtor
>>> (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, after the order for relief under this chapter, a creditor may not act, or commence or continue any civil action, to collect all or any part of a consumer debt of the debtor from any individual that is liable on such debt with the debtor, or that secured such debt, unless
>>> (1) such individual became liable on or secured such debt in the ordinary course of such individual's business; or
>>> (2) the case is closed, dismissed, or converted to a case under chapter 7 of this title.
>>>
>>> Since in the 9th Cir. a residential mortgage is a consumer debt, I would opine the codebtor stay applies.
>>>
>>> note, codebtor has no hyphen.
>>>
>>> d
>>>
>>> Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "sbombalier" wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello Listserv members:
>>>>
>>>> I need to get your opinion on this. My client is on a mortgage loan, but title is solely in her parents' names. A foreclosure sale is pending for early next month.
>>>>
>>>> I read the notice of sale and it refers to the note, having been executed by my client, as the basis for the sale. If my client files for BK, would the filing stay the sale, eventhough she's not on title?
>>>>
>>>> Any input is greatly appreciated, as always.
>>>>
>>>> Silvia
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.