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Amending Sch F to delete creditors
t email
the Trustee and ask if he would accept a "Notice Only" Amendment with
respect to those creditors that your debtors remembers being vendors, but
can't recall whether they owed a balance. And then give their best
recollection with respect tot he rest of the vendors. I'm betting your
Trustee would accept that. If they are giving an honest estimate based upon
what they owed on average with them.
It doesn't make a difference if the amounts are too high or too little,
because in an Asset case they will have to file a Proof of Claim with all
the documentation to support the claim and then you will know what the
balances are.
It could be trustee doesn't want to mail out notice to a bunch of people
that who are not owed balances.
And try to remember In re Beezley .... I can't help to imagine that if you
omit a creditor because they a honestly tried to include them but couldn't
remember a balance owing and trustee made you remove them. . . I'm sure the
discharge would cover them.
R. Grace Rodriguez, Esq.
OFF: (818) 734-7223
CEL: (818) 554-9922
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Amrane Cohen's office. It's a Chapter 13 that won't work so debtor is looking at converting to a Chapter 7 but we want to comply before converting to avoid allegations of bad faith, fraud, etc. I got a feeling that's where the trustee's staff attorney's tone was going. It's probably an issue because it's a Chapter 13 and amounts are required for the plan.
Regards,
Tuan Le
Tuan Le, Esq.
Law Offices of Steve Lopez
8562 Florence Avenue, Suite A
Downey, California 90240
Main: (562)904-1193
Fax: (562)262-2846
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail may contain confidential information and may also be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, as indicated above, please notify us immediately. In such event, you should not copy or use this e-mail for any purpose nor disclose its contents to anyone. Enclosed information and attachments remain the property of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ. Opinions, conclusions, attachments, and neither information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ should be understood as my personal responsibility, and as neither given nor endorsed by the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ.
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Michael,
The debtor did have a way to keep track of it, boxes of old bills. Unfortunately, some of the bills were pretty old so that's where the dilemma of what's owed or unpaid is arising. Not getting a discharge would be a huge problem but getting a discharge on only listed creditors would be just as bad since it's an asset case. I'm not sure what the ramifications are of amending the unknowns as "notice only" on an asset case. If anyone can provide some guidance it would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Tuan Le
Tuan Le, Esq.
Law Offices of Steve Lopez
8562 Florence Avenue, Suite A
Downey, California 90240
Main: (562)904-1193
Fax: (562)262-2846
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail may contain confidential information and may also be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, as indicated above, please notify us immediately. In such event, you should not copy or use this e-mail for any purpose nor disclose its contents to anyone. Enclosed information and attachments remain the property of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ. Opinions, conclusions, attachments, and neither information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ should be understood as my personal responsibility, and as neither given nor endorsed by the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ.
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Listing all potential creditors is what I believe all attorneys do. I don't understand it either. The trustee commented at the 341 hearing that it was unbelievable that someone would have so many creditors and not know how much they owed the person/creditor. Unfortunately, I guess there are people out there that have poor record keeping which should explain the reason they are in the predicament they are in.
Regards,
Tuan Le
Tuan Le, Esq.
Law Offices of Steve Lopez
8562 Florence Avenue, Suite A
Downey, California 90240
Main: (562)904-1193
Fax: (562)262-2846
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail may contain confidential information and may also be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, as indicated above, please notify us immediately. In such event, you should not copy or use this e-mail for any purpose nor disclose its contents to anyone. Enclosed information and attachments remain the property of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ. Opinions, conclusions, attachments, and neither information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ should be understood as my personal responsibility, and as neither given nor endorsed by the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ.
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It's a bit weird to schedule a fake number under penalty of perjury. I
highly recommend against it.
The best thing to do is find the records and amend the schedules to reflect
the amounts owed. If your client had many vendors, then he had a way to
keep track of them!
Another option is to amend schedules to include whatever information you
have and try to convince the Trustee that what you've provided is
sufficient. If that does not work, the Trustee's threat will be a denial of
discharge action under 727. You don't want to let it get to that point.
Another approach may be to list the creditors as notice only. This should
only be done if your client really does not know if he owes them money or
not but wants to be sure to give them notice of the bk and an opportunity
to file a poc.
Please keep in mind I have little to no experience with Chapter 7.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian, Esq.
Avanesian Law firm
101 N. Brand Blvd, PH 1920
Glendale, CA 91203
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:37 AM, 'Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.' vle@vlelaw.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> If nothing else, amend the schedules so that each creditor is owed $1.00
> rather than unknown. Obviously, you want to list all the potential
> creditors you can. However, it seems to me that listing the amounts as
> unknown is exactly the right thing to do in your clients situation so I
> dont understand the issue the trustee is having.
>
>
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
>
> Certified Family Law Specialist
>
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
>
> Family Law, Bankruptcy, and Estate Planning
>
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
>
> 325 E. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 150 23929 Valencia Blvd., Suite
> 411
>
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799 Valencia, CA 91355
>
> (805) 446-6262 (661) 222-2922
>
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
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> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
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> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 06, 2015 11:25 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Amending Sch F to delete creditors
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear listmates,
>
> I'm working on a case where debtors listed a huge amount of creditors that
> they believed they owed money to but did not know the amounts owed to each
> creditor. The debtors owned a business previously with huge amount of
> vendors. The creditors were listed on Sch F with a claim amount of
> unknown. Trustee is requiring that debtor list amounts. If debtor is
> unable to find the bills to put in the claim amounts, deleting them maybe
> debtors only option.
>
> I have never run into this issue before. My question is what is the
> procedure to delete the creditors on Sch F? Do I just amend Sch F by
> deleting the creditors, filing the amendment, and upload a new mailing
> matrix?
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Tuan Le
>
>
>
> Tuan Le, Esq.
>
> Law Offices of Steve Lopez
>
> 8562 Florence Avenue, Suite A
>
> Downey, California 90240
>
> Main: (562)904-1193
>
> Fax: (562)262-2846
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail may contain confidential information and may also
> be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, as indicated
> above, please notify us immediately. In such event, you should not copy or
> use this e-mail for any purpose nor disclose its contents to anyone.
> Enclosed information and attachments remain the property of the LAW OFFICE
> OF STEVE LOPEZ. Opinions, conclusions, attachments, and neither information
> in this message that do not relate to the official business of the LAW
> OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ should be understood as my personal responsibility,
> and as neither given nor endorsed by the LAW OFFICE OF STEVE LOPEZ.
>
>
>
>
>
It's a bit weird to schedule a fake number under penalty of perjury. I highly recommend against it.The best thing to do is find the records and amend the schedules to reflect the amounts owed. If your client had many vendors, then he had a way to keep track of them!Another option is to amend schedules to include whatever information you have and try to convince the Trustee that what you've provided is sufficient. If that does not work, the Trustee's threat will be a denial of discharge action under 727. You don't want to let it get to that point. Another approach may be to list the creditors as notice only. This should only be done if your client really does not know if he owes them money or not but wants to be sure to give them notice of the bk and an opportunity to file a poc.Please keep in mind I have little to no experience with Chapter 7.Sincerely,Michael Avanesian, Esq.Avanesian Law firm101 N. Brand Blvd,PH 1920Glendale, CA 91203
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:37 AM, 'Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.' vle@vlelaw.com [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
If nothing else, amend the schedules so that each creditor is owed $1.00 rather than unknown. Obviously, you want to list all the potential creditors you can.
However, it seems to me that listing the amounts as unknown is exactly the right thing to do in your clients situation so I dont understand the issue the trustee is having.
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