Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

exactly what I said in my November 16, 2017 post here.
On 12/8/2017 10:27 AM, sam@southbaybk.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> I have now filed 5 cases this month. No matter how its done (print
> out petition, insert signature pages, scan back in VS insert PDF
> of "wet" signature pages behind the electronic signature pages in
> Best Case) - and both methods suck.
>
>
> A person at Best Case told me that CDC may be the only
> jurisdiction doing it this way.  Apparently the more common
> practice now evolving is to create a pdf of all of the signature
> pages and file them separately from the electronically signed
> compete petition. Basically file the way we have for the past 12
> years and upload a PDF of all wet signatures in lieu of
> uploading only the Electronic Filing Declaration.
>
>
> Is there any discussion from anyone involved with any bench bar
> committees that have raised this (or may be willing to raise this)
> to the judges?  I believe this would greatly simplify the process
> for practitioners and still meet the apparent goal of wet
> signatures on file.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
_*Mailing Address Only:*_
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California
Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Truly a big drag. I filed three cases yesterday, with a few different methods as well.
Incidentally, I was told by the court that we cant even just attach the signature pages where they go in the petition behind the electronic version, as you suggested.
Otherwise, I would not have bought this shiny new scanner yesterday. Ha ha...
I guess we will smooth out the kinks as we go.
Christie Cronenweth
Law Offices of Christie Cronenweth
25202 Crenshaw Blvd., Suite 207
Torrance, CA 90505
310-257-4995 ph
310-257-4996 fx
cronenwethlaw@yahoo.com
www.cronenwethlaw.com
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The Law Offices of Christie Cronenweth is a debt relief agency engaged in the practice of aiding people to file for bankruptcy under the Bankruptcy Code.
> On Dec 8, 2017, at 10:27 AM, sam@southbaybk.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
> I have now filed 5 cases this month. No matter how its done (print out petition, insert signature pages, scan back in VS insert PDF of "wet" signature pages behind the electronic signature pages in Best Case) - and both methods suck.
>
>
>
> A person at Best Case told me that CDC may be the only jurisdiction doing it this way. Apparently the more common practice now evolving is to create a pdf of all of the signature pages and file them separately from the electronically signed compete petition. Basically file the way we have for the past 12 years and upload a PDF of all wet signatures in lieu of uploading only the Electronic Filing Declaration.
>
>
>
> Is there any discussion from anyone involved with any bench bar committees that have raised this (or may be willing to raise this) to the judges? I believe this would greatly simplify the process for practitioners and still meet the apparent goal of wet signatures on file.
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

You're more trusting than I am with the automated software. I've never
used the automated filing (on EZ-Filing, or CIN Compass) as I couldn't see
it in the correct order for the CDCA BK Courts. I've been pretty
disappointed with both products as they are loaded with "features" I'm not
interested in using, but fail to do some basic things (like putting the
forms in the order I determine). EZ-Filing was better than CIN Compass.
If my bankruptcy business picks up again I may try Best Case, but for now
I'm looking at the new Next Chapter as the most reasonably priced software
with basic features I want and need.
Link Schrader
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:26 PM, John Faucher j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> The problem I've got is that the software gives me a way to open the case
> and file the petition automatically. I intend to continue to do this, and
> to file immediately thereafter file a copy of the petition with all the
> signature pages in the right spot. I don't see a way to take advantage of
> the automatic filing regime and to have the holographic signatures filed in
> the right spot from the get-go.
> - John D. Faucher
> 818/889-8080
>
>
> On Saturday, November 18, 2017 1:32 PM, "Link Schrader
> lschrader@schrader-law.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
>
>
> Why wouldn't we just scan the signature pages and then place them in the
> correct location?
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa] cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> As you all (probably) know, as of December 1, we are no longer using the
> ECF Declaration and must provide holographic signatures on all documents
> signed by the debtor (or creditor or other party).
>
> Our new court manual requires that all these pages be placed in the proper
> location where they fall within the document, so for the petition and
> schedules, etc. this is a lot of different places. Thus, we will have to
> print out the entire petition and schedules, then scan the entire document
> (after signatures are added) before uploading it to the court.
>
> According to BestCase software, we are the only district in the country
> requiring this. All others allow the signature pages to be uploaded in a
> separate file, making it able to be automated.
>
> Does anyone in our group have connections with whatever rules committee
> made this decision?
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> *Mailing Address Only:*
> 11684 Ventura Blvd
> . PMB
> #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ______________________________ __________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Link W. Schrader, Attorney
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
> P.O. Box 412914, Kansas City, Missouri 64141
> Home Office: (913) 283-7118; Mobile: (310) 413-6924
> Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
> Admitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri, and in
> the federal courts in Kansas.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information
> which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. It is intended solely for the use of the individual
> or intended recipient. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this communication in error, please notify the sender. Thank you
> for your cooperation.
>
>
>
>
Link W. Schrader, Attorney
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
P.O. Box 412914, Kansas City, Missouri 64141
Home Office: (913) 283-7118; Mobile: (310) 413-6924
Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
Admitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri, and in
the federal courts in Kansas.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

As to best case; my plan is to prepare the petition for filing with best case, print the petition.pdf file, have the client sign each required page and then rescan the petition with the signed pages. I will then replace the original petition.pdf with the signed version. Best Case will now be able to file it automatically.
Is there a Best Case Guru out there that sees a problem with this method?
Best regards
Larry Webb
California Board of Legal Specialization
Certified Specialist in Bankruptcy Law
P 805.987.1400
F 805.987.2866
C 805.750.2150

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

What if the petition was filed with the /s/ and then one files a pleading immediately thereafter using the declaration event code stating the attorneys and debtor(s) holographic signatures are attached and attach all the signature pages?
This would only add the additional time of creating the declaration, but once it is created, it can be used over and over. Only the caption and case number would have to be changed.
Another casualty not discussed. The petitions will most likely no longer be bookmarked which will make review by trustees more difficult.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 18, 2017, at 5:54 PM, 'Mark J. Markus' bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
That's what will have to be done. It will add 15-30 minutes to processing each petition. Locating the proper place to put the signature pages is difficult when you're editing a pdf file of the entire petition. For those of you with secretaries who handle such things, this is non-issue. For those who do everything themselves, this is yet another unnecessary cost that has to be absorbed and can't be passed on to the client.
On 11/18/2017 1:32 PM, Link Schrader lschrader@schrader-law.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
Why wouldn't we just scan the signature pages and then place them in the correct location?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
As you all (probably) know, as of December 1, we are no longer using the ECF Declaration and must provide holographic signatures on all documents signed by the debtor (or creditor or other party).
Our new court manual requires that all these pages be placed in the proper location where they fall within the document, so for the petition and schedules, etc. this is a lot of different places. Thus, we will have to print out the entire petition and schedules, then scan the entire document (after signatures are added) before uploading it to the court.
According to BestCase software, we are the only district in the country requiring this. All others allow the signature pages to be uploaded in a separate file, making it able to be automated.
Does anyone in our group have connections with whatever rules committee made this decision?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
Mailing Address Only:
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
Link W. Schrader, Attorney
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
P.O. Box 412914, Kansas City, Missouri 64141
Home Office: (913) 283-7118; Mobile: (310) 413-6924
Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
Admitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri, and in the federal courts in Kansas.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

That's what will have to be done.  It will add 15-30 minutes to
processing each petition.  Locating the proper place to put the
signature pages is difficult when you're editing a pdf file of the
entire petition.  For those of you with secretaries who handle such
things, this is non-issue.  For those who do everything themselves,
this is yet another unnecessary cost that has to be absorbed and
can't be passed on to the client.
On 11/18/2017 1:32 PM, Link Schrader lschrader@schrader-law.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> Why wouldn't we just scan the signature pages and then place them
> in the correct location?
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, bklawr@yahoo.com
> [cdcbaa] > wrote:
>
> As you all (probably) know, as of December 1, we are no longer
> using the ECF Declaration and must provide holographic
> signatures on all documents signed by the debtor (or creditor
> or other party).
>
> Our new court manual requires that all these pages be placed
> in the proper location where they fall within the document, so
> for the petition and schedules, etc. this is a lot of
> different places.   Thus, we will have to print out the entire
> petition and schedules, then scan the entire document (after
> signatures are added) before uploading it to the court.
>
> According to BestCase software, we are the only district in
> the country requiring this. All others allow the signature
> pages to be uploaded in a separate file, making it able to be
> automated.
>
> Does anyone in our group have connections with whatever rules
> committee made this decision?
>
>
> *************************
>
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> _*Mailing Address Only:*_
> 11684 Ventura Blvd
> .
> PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180
> (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of
> California Board of Legal Specialization
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the
> law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The
> information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If
> you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy,
> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with
> requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S.
> tax advice contained in this communication (or in any
> attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot
> be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or
> recommending to another party any transaction or matter
> addressed in this communication.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Link W. Schrader, Attorney
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
> P.O. Box 412914, Kansas City, Missouri 64141
> Home Office: (913) 283-7118; Mobile: (310) 413-6924
> Fax: (310) 878-4158;www.schrader-law.com
>
>
> Admitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri,
> and in the federal courts in Kansas.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain
> information which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt
> from disclosure under applicable law.  It is intended solely for
> the use of the individual or intended recipient.  You are hereby
> notified that any use, dissemination or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify the sender.  Thank you for
> your cooperation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
_*Mailing Address Only:*_
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California
Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

The problem I've got is that the software gives me a way to open the case and file the petition automatically. I intend to continue to do this, and to file immediately thereafter file a copy of the petition with all the signature pages in the right spot. I don't see a way to take advantage of the automatic filing regime and to have the holographic signatures filed in the right spot from the get-go.- John D. Faucher818/889-8080
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 1:32 PM, "Link Schrader lschrader@schrader-law.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
Why wouldn't we just scan the signature pages and then place them in the correct location?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
As you all (probably) know, as of December 1, we are no longer using the ECF Declaration and must provide holographic signatures on all documents signed by the debtor (or creditor or other party).
Our new court manual requires that all these pages be placed in the proper location where they fall within the document, so for the petition and schedules, etc. this is a lot of different places. Thus, we will have to print out the entire petition and schedules, then scan the entire document (after signatures are added) before uploading it to the court.
According to BestCase software, we are the only district in the country requiring this. All others allow the signature pages to be uploaded in a separate file, making it able to be automated.
Does anyone in our group have connections with whatever rules committee made this decision?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
Mailing Address Only:
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
______________________________ __________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
Link W. Schrader, Attorney
Law Office ofLink W. Schrader
P.O. Box 412914,Kansas City, Missouri 64141
Home Office: (913) 283-7118;Mobile: (310) 413-6924
Fax: (310)878-4158;www.schrader-law.comAdmitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri, and in the federal courts in Kansas.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Why wouldn't we just scan the signature pages and then place them in the
correct location?
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, bklawr@yahoo.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> As you all (probably) know, as of December 1, we are no longer using the
> ECF Declaration and must provide holographic signatures on all documents
> signed by the debtor (or creditor or other party).
>
> Our new court manual requires that all these pages be placed in the proper
> location where they fall within the document, so for the petition and
> schedules, etc. this is a lot of different places. Thus, we will have to
> print out the entire petition and schedules, then scan the entire document
> (after signatures are added) before uploading it to the court.
>
> According to BestCase software, we are the only district in the country
> requiring this. All others allow the signature pages to be uploaded in a
> separate file, making it able to be automated.
>
> Does anyone in our group have connections with whatever rules committee
> made this decision?
>
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> *Mailing Address Only:*
> 11684 Ventura Blvd
> . PMB
> #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California Board of
> Legal Specialization
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
> of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
> the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
> disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
> prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
> the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
> communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
> and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
>
>
Link W. Schrader, Attorney
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
P.O. Box 412914, Kansas City, Missouri 64141
Home Office: (913) 283-7118; Mobile: (310) 413-6924
Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
Admitted to practice law in all courts in California and Missouri, and in
the federal courts in Kansas.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Either that or you have to scan and insert each signature page and
try to locate where they belong while looking at the pdf.
On 11/18/2017 11:53 AM, sam@southbaybk.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
>  Scan the entire petition? Please say that ain't so!
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
_*Mailing Address Only:*_
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)332-1180 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
Certified Bankruptcy Law Specialist--The State Bar of California
Board of Legal Specialization
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
________________________________________________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.