Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

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On Mar 29, 2012, at 11:08 AM, "t_mannis" wrote:
> This comes up fairly frequently, and since it usually has no impact either way, its perhaps meaningless, but I was discussing this with another bk attorney (not on this listserve)
>
> Debtor has a 50% interest in a car with a non-filing friend (or it could a house, jewelry, etc.). The car was collateral for the debt. The car is way upside down - no equity whatsoever. However, Debtor still remains liable on the loan.
>
> List the debt in Schedule D or Schedule F? If you list in Schedule D, makes sense in that the debt is still secured, but its not secured by property of the Debtor. Moreover, then you're listing the collateral in Schedule B, which instructs us to list Debtor's interest in the property, which he no longer has. You're also then doing the Statement of Intent, etc. I usually do it this way anyway, with a detailed explanation of the whole thing in Schedule B and D, as well as the obligatory Item 10 of SOFA.
>
> However, Buddy of mine says if Debtor has no interest in the property, the debt is no longer secured as to him, and so just list it in Schedule F, and be done with it. Certainly easier, but it seems to leave out important info, even though the transfer is listed in Item 10 of SOFA.
>
> Putting aside preference issues (there is no transfer of any value), which is the better approach? Or, given the fact that the property transferred was drastically upside down, is it of no significance one way or another?
>
> Todd Mannis, Esq.
>
>
>
>
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FSent from my iPhoneOn Mar 29, 2012, at 11:08 AM, "t_mannis" <toddlaw@dslextreme.com> wrote:

This comes up fairly frequently, and since it usually has no impact either way, its perhaps meaningless, but I was discussing this with another bk attorney (not on this listserve)
Debtor has a 50% interest in a car with a non-filing friend (or it could a house, jewelry, etc.). The car was collateral for the debt. The car is way upside down - no equity whatsoever. However, Debtor still remains liable on the loan.
List the debt in Schedule D or Schedule F? If you list in Schedule D, makes sense in that the debt is still secured, but its not secured by property of the Debtor. Moreover, then you're listing the collateral in Schedule B, which instructs us to list Debtor's interest in the property, which he no longer has. You're also then doing the Statement of Intent, etc. I usually do it this way anyway, with a detailed explanation of the whole thing in Schedule B and D, as well as the obligatory Item 10 of SOFA.
However, Buddy of mine says if Debtor has no interest in the property, the debt is no longer secured as to him, and so just list it in Schedule F, and be done with it. Certainly easier, but it seems to leave out important info, even though the transfer is listed in Item 10 of SOFA.
Putting aside preference issues (there is no transfer of any value), which is the better approach? Or, given the fact that the property transferred was drastically upside down, is it of no significance one way or another?
Todd Mannis, Esq.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I had a similar situation recently and used your friend's approach.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, t_mannis wrote:
> **
>
>
> This comes up fairly frequently, and since it usually has no impact either
> way, its perhaps meaningless, but I was discussing this with another bk
> attorney (not on this listserve)
>
> Debtor has a 50% interest in a car with a non-filing friend (or it could a
> house, jewelry, etc.). The car was collateral for the debt. The car is way
> upside down - no equity whatsoever. However, Debtor still remains liable on
> the loan.
>
> List the debt in Schedule D or Schedule F? If you list in Schedule D,
> makes sense in that the debt is still secured, but its not secured by
> property of the Debtor. Moreover, then you're listing the collateral in
> Schedule B, which instructs us to list Debtor's interest in the property,
> which he no longer has. You're also then doing the Statement of Intent,
> etc. I usually do it this way anyway, with a detailed explanation of the
> whole thing in Schedule B and D, as well as the obligatory Item 10 of SOFA.
>
> However, Buddy of mine says if Debtor has no interest in the property, the
> debt is no longer secured as to him, and so just list it in Schedule F, and
> be done with it. Certainly easier, but it seems to leave out important
> info, even though the transfer is listed in Item 10 of SOFA.
>
> Putting aside preference issues (there is no transfer of any value), which
> is the better approach? Or, given the fact that the property transferred
> was drastically upside down, is it of no significance one way or another?
>
> Todd Mannis, Esq.
>
>
>
Kirk Brennan, esq.
California Law Office, P.C.
www.calibankruptcysite.com
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I had a similar situation recently and used your friend's approach.On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:08 AM, t_mannis <toddlaw@dslextreme.com> wrote:
This comes up fairly frequently, and since it usually has no impact either way, its perhaps meaningless, but I was discussing this with another bk attorney (not on this listserve)
Debtor has a 50% interest in a car with a non-filing friend (or it could a house, jewelry, etc.). The car was collateral for the debt. The car is way upside down - no equity whatsoever. However, Debtor still remains liable on the loan.
List the debt in Schedule D or Schedule F? If you list in Schedule D, makes sense in that the debt is still secured, but its not secured by property of the Debtor. Moreover, then you're listing the collateral in Schedule B, which instructs us to list Debtor's interest in the property, which he no longer has. You're also then doing the Statement of Intent, etc. I usually do it this way anyway, with a detailed explanation of the whole thing in Schedule B and D, as well as the obligatory Item 10 of SOFA.
However, Buddy of mine says if Debtor has no interest in the property, the debt is no longer secured as to him, and so just list it in Schedule F, and be done with it. Certainly easier, but it seems to leave out important info, even though the transfer is listed in Item 10 of SOFA.
Putting aside preference issues (there is no transfer of any value), which is the better approach? Or, given the fact that the property transferred was drastically upside down, is it of no significance one way or another?
Todd Mannis, Esq.
-- Kirk Brennan, esq.California Law Office, P.C.www.calibankruptcysite.comCONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion letters containing the signature of a director.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

This comes up fairly frequently, and since it usually has no impact either way, its perhaps meaningless, but I was discussing this with another bk attorney (not on this listserve)
Debtor has a 50% interest in a car with a non-filing friend (or it could a house, jewelry, etc.). The car was collateral for the debt. The car is way upside down - no equity whatsoever. However, Debtor still remains liable on the loan.
List the debt in Schedule D or Schedule F? If you list in Schedule D, makes sense in that the debt is still secured, but its not secured by property of the Debtor. Moreover, then you're listing the collateral in Schedule B, which instructs us to list Debtor's interest in the property, which he no longer has. You're also then doing the Statement of Intent, etc. I usually do it this way anyway, with a detailed explanation of the whole thing in Schedule B and D, as well as the obligatory Item 10 of SOFA.
However, Buddy of mine says if Debtor has no interest in the property, the debt is no longer secured as to him, and so just list it in Schedule F, and be done with it. Certainly easier, but it seems to leave out important info, even though the transfer is listed in Item 10 of SOFA.
Putting aside preference issues (there is no transfer of any value), which is the better approach? Or, given the fact that the property transferred was drastically upside down, is it of no significance one way or another?
Todd Mannis, Esq.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.