Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

BINGO!
Sal Sciortino
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds
If it is an ERISA qualified plan it's
not even an asset of the estate under 11 U.S.C. 541(b).
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief
Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805)
497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
On Fri, 4 May 2012 15:22:49 -0400, "Leventhal Law Group, P.C."
wrote:

>What being held, funds should be exempt.
>
>Jonathan Leventhal,
esq.
>Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
>818-347-5800
>
>
>NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail
notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email. You must comply with
California Law and give notice to a person in my office during regular business
hours.
>
>This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this
email and any attachments thereto.
>
>Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
>
>Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not reprenet you until a
written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been
paid.
>
>On May 4, 2012, at 11:50 AM, "Desiree Causey"
wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Trustee has frozen clients 401K funds account. Id
like to file a motion to have it released. Calls and emails to trustees
office have been unfruitful. Can anyone direct me to a case where you
might have done something similar?
>>
>>
>>
>>Desiree Causey, Esq.
>>Law Office of Desiree Causey
>>17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>>Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>>
>>714-375-6663
>>714-908-7646 (fax)
>>
>>Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and
any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be
used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed
under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law
provisions.
>>
>>Privileged And Confidential Communication.
>>This electronic
transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use
of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic
message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message.
Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information
received in error is strictly prohibited.
>>
>>Please consider the environment
before printing this e-mail.
>>
>>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Just this week, I had an on-the-record discussion at the 341a table with a
Chapter 7 trustee when they questioned why I used 522 since "California is
an opt-out state." I explained that just because CA opted out of federal
exemptions does not mean we're precluded from using a federal exemption. The
trustee relented at the end of it, and no amendment to Schedule C was
requested.
I didn't have the Rutter Guide/Ahart cite and page number with me. Next
time, I will.
Hale
_____

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Desireee, When clients claim that they have a 401 K or some kind of retirement plan, we always require the documents. If they come from Northrup Grumman--no worries if it says 401K. If its a doctor that set this up for himself you might have some big problems. We sometimes see clients who claim they have a 401K and when you look at the documents, its apparent they have a stock option plan or in one case what they had was an annuity. Do you have the documents and what do they say? That would be Exhibit A on any motion.
Margaret Norman, Attny
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. #355
Manhattan Beach, Ca. 90266
310-376-7873
Fax 310-798-0846

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

David:
Good opportunity to read the statute. This is a plain meaning analysis. You should know it and the trustees should know it. Read it and educate them.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

If it is a 401k it has to be ERISA unless improperly drafted, which would be a mega screw up that is rarely, if ever seen.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green
Attorney at Law
Fitzgerald & Green
1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Trustees still question it & that is why I asked. Thanks for the info!
This message is from an attorney and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential, including, without limitation, attorney-client privileged communication(s) and/or confidential attorney work product. Unless you are the addressee or authorized to receive messages for the addressee, you may not use, copy,or disclose this message or any information contained herein. If you havereceived this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete any version, response, or reference to it. Thank you.
On May 4, 2012, at 1:45 PM, "Link W. Schrader" wrote:
> The Rutter Guides says, in part, Regardless of which set of state law exemptions is chosen, California debtors may also exempt certain retirement funds under the Bankruptcy Code. [11 USC 522 (b)(3)(C)].y. I have used this before and while Ive had attorneys for trustees question it, I have never received an objection on the use of this exemption.
>
>
>
> Link Schrader, Attorney
>
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>
>
>
David Jacob
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:34 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds
>
>
>
>
>
> I have heard the line "never mix 703s and 704s" and never use federal exemptions because we are an opt out state. I wonder, how does one make the 522 argument with this in mind.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> This message is from an attorney and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential, including, without limitation, attorney-client privileged communication(s) and/or confidential attorney work product. Unless you are the addressee or authorized to receive messages for the addressee, you may not use, copy,or disclose this message or any information contained herein. If you havereceived this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete any version, response, or reference to it. Thank you.
>
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Link W. Schrader" wrote:
>
>
>
> II
>
> If the retirement funds, such as the 401K, have received favorable IRS determination under 26 USC 7805, and that determination is in effect as of the petition date, the funds shall be presumed exempt from the estate under 11 USC 522(b)(4)(A). Therefore, I would use 1 USC 522(b)(4)(A) to exempt the 401K funds which existed prepetition in an unlimited amount.
>
>
>
> However, a chapter 13 trustee might object to postpetition deposits to a 401K, that would otherwise be disposable income. It would probably depend on the amount deposited. In a chapter 7, if the funds are exempt the trustee should have no power to freeze the account.
>
>
>
> I would make sure the amount was properly exempted and then, if necessary, file a motion asking for an order directing the trustee to release exempt property back to the estate. I have filed a similar motion for an order directing the Sheriff to release levied funds, but not against a trustee. There might be, and probably are, different rules relating to a trustee.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Link Schrader, Attorney
>
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>
>
>
Mark T. Jessee
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:56 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds
>
>
>
> 401(k) account trustee or bankruptcy trustee? Is this plan ERISA qualified or not?
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 4 May 2012 11:49:59 -0700, Desiree Causey wrote:
>
>
>
> Trustee has frozen clients 401K funds account. Id like to file a motion to have it released. Calls and emails to trustees office have been unfruitful. Can anyone direct me to a case where you might have done something similar?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
>
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
>
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
>
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
> Messages in this topic (11)
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Trustees still question it & that is why I asked. Thanks for the info! This message is from an attorney and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential, including, without limitation, attorney-client privileged communication(s) and/or confidential attorney work product. Unless you are the addressee or authorized to receive messages for the addressee, you may not use, copy,or disclose this message or any information contained herein. If you havereceived this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete any version, response, or reference to it. Thank you.On May 4, 2012, at 1:45 PM, "Link W. Schrader" <lschrader@schrader-law.com> wrote:

The Rutter Guides says, in part, Regardless of which set of state law exemptions is chosen, California debtors may also exempt certain retirement funds under the Bankruptcy Code. [
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I have heard the line "never mix 703s and 704s" and never use federal exemptions because we are an opt out state. I wonder, how does one make the 522 argument with this in mind.
Thanks
David
This message is from an attorney and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential, including, without limitation, attorney-client privileged communication(s) and/or confidential attorney work product. Unless you are the addressee or authorized to receive messages for the addressee, you may not use, copy,or disclose this message or any information contained herein. If you havereceived this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete any version, response, or reference to it. Thank you.
On May 4, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Link W. Schrader" wrote:
> II
>
> If the retirement funds, such as the 401K, have received favorable IRS determination under 26 USC 7805, and that determination is in effect as of the petition date, the funds shall be presumed exempt from the estate under 11 USC 522(b)(4)(A). Therefore, I would use 1 USC 522(b)(4)(A) to exempt the 401K funds which existed prepetition in an unlimited amount.
>
>
>
> However, a chapter 13 trustee might object to postpetition deposits to a 401K, that would otherwise be disposable income. It would probably depend on the amount deposited. In a chapter 7, if the funds are exempt the trustee should have no power to freeze the account.
>
>
>
> I would make sure the amount was properly exempted and then, if necessary, file a motion asking for an order directing the trustee to release exempt property back to the estate. I have filed a similar motion for an order directing the Sheriff to release levied funds, but not against a trustee. There might be, and probably are, different rules relating to a trustee.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Link Schrader, Attorney
>
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>
>
>
Mark T. Jessee
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:56 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds
>
>
>
> 401(k) account trustee or bankruptcy trustee? Is this plan ERISA qualified or not?
>
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 4 May 2012 11:49:59 -0700, Desiree Causey wrote:
>
>
>
> Trustee has frozen clients 401K funds account. Id like to file a motion to have it released. Calls and emails to trustees office have been unfruitful. Can anyone direct me to a case where you might have done something similar?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
>
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
>
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
I have heard the line "never mix 703s and 704s" and never use federal exemptions because we are an opt out state. I wonder, how does one make the 522 argument with this in mind.Thanks DavidThis message is from an attorney and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential, including, without limitation, attorney-client privileged communication(s) and/or confidential attorney work product. Unless you are the addressee or authorized to receive messages for the addressee, you may not use, copy,or disclose this message or any information contained herein. If you havereceived this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete any version, response, or reference to it. Thank you.On May 4, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Link W. Schrader" <lschrader@schrader-law.com> wrote:

IIIf the retirement funds, such as the 401K, have received favorable IRS determination under 26 USC 7805, and that determination is in effect as of the petition date, the funds shall be presumed exempt from the estate under 11 USC 522(b)(4)(A). Therefore, I would use 1 USC 522(b)(4)(A) to exempt the 401K funds which existed prepetition in an unlimited amount. However, a chapter 13 trustee might object to postpetition deposits to a 401K, that would otherwise be disposable income. It would probably depend on the amount deposited. In a chapter 7, if the funds are exempt the trustee should have no power to freeze the account. I would make sure the amount was properly exempted and then, if necessary, file a motion asking for an order directing the trustee to release exempt property back to the estate. I have filed a similar motion for an order directing the Sheriff to release levied funds, but not against a trustee. There might be, and probably are, different rules relating to a trustee. Best, Link Schrader, AttorneyLaw Office of Link W. Schrader From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark T. JesseeSent: Friday, May 04, 2012 11:56 AMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds 401(k) account trustee or bankruptcy trustee? Is this plan ERISA qualified or not?Mark T. JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)On Fri, 4 May 2012 11:49:59 -0700, Desiree Causey <causeylaw@gmail.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

charset="UTF-8"
I mean the bankruptcy trustee. It is a non-ERISA plan.
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Is Trustee claiming the whole value of the 401K was not claimed exempt on Sch C?
Catherine Christiansen
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Motion to release hold on 401K funds
Exactly my point, their is more to this!
Jonathan Leventhal, esq.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
818-347-5800
NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email. You must comply with California Law and give notice to a person in my office during regular business hours.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not reprenet you until a written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been paid.
On May 4, 2012, at 12:32 PM, "Mark T. Jessee" wrote:
If it is an ERISA qualified plan it's
not even an asset of the estate under 11 U.S.C. 541(b).
>
>
>
>Mark T. Jessee
>Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>"A Debt Relief
Agency"
>50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>(805)
497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, 4 May 2012 15:22:49 -0400, "Leventhal Law Group, P.C."
wrote:
>
>
>>What being held, funds should be exempt.
>>
>>Jonathan Leventhal,
esq.
>>Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
>>818-347-5800
>>
>>
>>NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail
notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email. You must comply with
California Law and give notice to a person in my office during regular business
hours.
>>
>>This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this
email and any attachments thereto.
>>
>>Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
>>
>>Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not reprenet you until a
written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been
paid.
>>
>>On May 4, 2012, at 11:50 AM, "Desiree Causey"
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Trustee has frozen clients 401K funds account. Id
like to file a motion to have it released. Calls and emails to trustees
office have been unfruitful. Can anyone direct me to a case where you
might have done something similar?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Desiree Causey, Esq.
>>>Law Office of Desiree Causey
>>>17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>>>Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>>>
>>>714-375-6663
>>>714-908-7646 (fax)
>>>
>>>Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and
any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be
used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed
under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law
provisions.
>>>
>>>Privileged And Confidential Communication.
>>>This electronic
transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use
of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic
message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message.
Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information
received in error is strictly prohibited.
>>>
>>>Please consider the environment
before printing this e-mail.
>>>
>>>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

charsetF-8;
format="flowed"
If it is an ERISA qualified plan it's not even an asset of the estate
under 11 U.S.C. 541(b).
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
On Fri, 4 May 2012 15:22:49 -0400, "Leventhal Law Group, P.C." wrote:
What being held, funds should be exempt.
Jonathan Leventhal, esq. Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
818-347-5800
NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail
notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email. You must
comply with California Law and give notice to a person in my office
during regular business hours.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended
recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not reprenet you until a
written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of
the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have
been paid.
On May 4, 2012, at 11:50 AM, "Desiree Causey" wrote:
Trustee has frozen clients 401K funds account. Id like to file a
motion to have it released. Calls and emails to trustees office have
been unfruitful. Can anyone direct me to a case where you might have
done something similar?
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any
attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot
be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that
may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or
local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a)
are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient
named above. If you have received this electronic message in error,
please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any
disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the
information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
start="1b2t7xzvpnno@webmail.mysuperpageshosting.com"
charsetF-8
p{margin: 0;padding: 0;}If it is an ERISA qualified plan it's
not even an asset of the estate under 11 U.S.C. 541(b).

Mark T. JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief
Agency"50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805)
497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
On Fri, 4 May 2012 15:22:49 -0400, "Leventhal Law Group, P.C."
<law@3yl.com> wrote:

The post was migrated from Yahoo.