Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

As an aside, we had a lawyer in Vegas sanctioned for doing this very thing. Apparently his staff would routinely take the counseling for the clients. He was a large filer and I guess he thought he control his work flow a little easier that way! I don't believe that any of his cases got dismissed because of it, however.
>
> Gio:
>
> Don't think the court would dismiss in these circumstances. If the debtor
> took advantage of this alleged injustice, even a small advantage, like
> getting behind the automatic stay, the court might not let the debtor off
> of the bankruptcy fly paper. It's sticky, you know?
>
> Also I would be very skeptical of the allegation. Most lawyers would not
> cheat like that. I would guess a secretary sat with the client, asked the
> questions, one by one, and just did the typing. A confused debtor could
> state later the debtor did not take the course.
>
>
> dennis
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Giovanni Orantes wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Facts:
> >
> > An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the
> > debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had
> > the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took
> > it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he
> > had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
> >
> > Question:
> > If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be
> > dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has
> > gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months
> > of activity and am still sorting through what happened.
> >
> > --
> > Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
> > Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> > Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
> > 3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980
> > Los Angeles, CA 90010
> > Tel: (213) 389-4362
> > Fax: (877) 789-5776
> > e-mail: go@...
> > website: www.gobklaw.com
> >
> > *Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> > Certification
> > *Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> > Certification
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I don't think there's a chance in hell the case will be dismissed if the tt
doesn't want it dismissed. Bankruptcy flypaper. I like that. Gonna be the name of my fantasy baseball team. Jon
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> I would call the attorney to ascertain whether what the client's telling you is true. I routinely do this especially when a debtor is alleging misconduct from their attorney.
> Often when you have the client on the phone with the attorney, you get a clearer idea of whatactuallyhappened.
>
> Was the certification form filed along with the certificate?
>
> If not,the court could dismiss on this basis. I have had this situation happen.
> If the certificate and certification was filed, then I believe the case will move forward unless the grants your clien'ts motion to dismiss the case.
>
> Maggie
>
>
> ________________________________
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] fraudulent credit counseling certificate
>
>
>
>
> Gio:
>
> Don't think the court would dismiss in these circumstances. If the debtor took advantage of this alleged injustice, even a small advantage, like getting behind the automatic stay, the court might not let the debtor off of the bankruptcy fly paper. It's sticky, you know?
>
> Also I would be very skeptical of the allegation. Most lawyers would not cheat like that. I would guess a secretary sat with the client, asked the questions, one by one, and just did the typing. A confused debtor could state later the debtor did not take the course.
>
>
> dennis
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Giovanni Orantes wrote:
>
> >
> >Facts:
> >
> >An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
> >
> >Question:
> >If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months of activity and am still sorting through what happened. --
> >Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
> >Certified Bankruptcy Specialist* Orantes Law Firm, P.C.3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980Los Angeles, CA 90010Tel: (213) 389-4362 Fax: (877) 789-5776 e-mail: go@...: http://www.gobklaw.com/*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
> >*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
> >
> >
> >
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Hi Giovanni,
I would call the attorney to ascertain whether what the client's telling you is true. I routinely do this especially when a debtor is alleging misconduct from their attorney.
Often when you have the client on the phone with the attorney, you get a clearer idea of whatactuallyhappened.
Was the certification form filed along with the certificate?
If not,the court could dismiss on this basis. I have had this situation happen.
If the certificate and certification was filed, then I believe the case will move forward unless the grants your clien'ts motion to dismiss the case.
Maggie
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] fraudulent credit counseling certificate
Gio:
Don't think the court would dismiss in these circumstances. If the debtor took advantage of this alleged injustice, even a small advantage, like getting behind the automatic stay, the court might not let the debtor off of the bankruptcy fly paper. It's sticky, you know?
Also I would be very skeptical of the allegation. Most lawyers would not cheat like that. I would guess a secretary sat with the client, asked the questions, one by one, and just did the typing. A confused debtor could state later the debtor did not take the course.
dennis
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Giovanni Orantes wrote:>
>Facts:
>
>An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
>
>Question:
>If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months of activity and am still sorting through what happened. --
>Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
>Certified Bankruptcy Specialist* Orantes Law Firm, P.C.3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980Los Angeles, CA 90010Tel: (213) 389-4362 Fax: (877) 789-5776 e-mail: go@gobklaw.comwebsite: http://www.gobklaw.com/*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
>*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
>
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Gio:
Don't think the court would dismiss in these circumstances. If the debtor
took advantage of this alleged injustice, even a small advantage, like
getting behind the automatic stay, the court might not let the debtor off
of the bankruptcy fly paper. It's sticky, you know?
Also I would be very skeptical of the allegation. Most lawyers would not
cheat like that. I would guess a secretary sat with the client, asked the
questions, one by one, and just did the typing. A confused debtor could
state later the debtor did not take the course.
dennis
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Giovanni Orantes wrote:
> **
>
>
> Facts:
>
> An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the
> debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had
> the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took
> it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he
> had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
>
> Question:
> If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be
> dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has
> gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months
> of activity and am still sorting through what happened.
>
> --
> Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
> 3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980
> Los Angeles, CA 90010
> Tel: (213) 389-4362
> Fax: (877) 789-5776
> e-mail: go@gobklaw.com
> website: www.gobklaw.com
>
> *Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> Certification
> *Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> Certification
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gio:Don't think the court would dismiss in these circumstances. If the debtor took advantage of this alleged injustice, even a small advantage, like getting behind the automatic stay, the court might not let the debtor off of the bankruptcy fly paper. It's sticky, you know?
Also I would be very skeptical of the allegation. Most lawyers would not cheat like that. I would guess a secretary sat with the client, asked the questions, one by one, and just did the typing. A confused debtor could state later the debtor did not take the course.
dennisOn Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Giovanni Orantes <go@gobklaw.com> wrote:
Facts:An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
Question:If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months of activity and am still sorting through what happened.
-- Giovanni Orantes, Esq.Certified Bankruptcy Specialist* Orantes Law Firm, P.C.3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980Los Angeles, CA 90010Tel: (213) 389-4362
Fax: (877) 789-5776
e-mail: go@gobklaw.comwebsite: www.gobklaw.com*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Facts:
An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the
debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had
the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took
it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he
had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
Question:
If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be
dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has
gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months
of activity and am still sorting through what happened.
Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980
Los Angeles, CA 90010
Tel: (213) 389-4362
Fax: (877) 789-5776
e-mail: go@gobklaw.com
website: www.gobklaw.com
*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
Facts:An attorney had his secretary take the credit counseling class for the debtor and filed the certificate with the Court and may or may not have had the debtor, a non-English reader, sign the Exhibit D attesting that he took it, but the Debtor was never told he had to take the class, only that he had to pay extra for the secretary to get the certificate for him.
Question:If I withdraw the credit counseling certificate, must the case be dismissed? Dismissal of the case would be ideal in this situation that has gotten too messy to describe here -- I just got the case after many months of activity and am still sorting through what happened.
-- Giovanni Orantes, Esq.Certified Bankruptcy Specialist* Orantes Law Firm, P.C.3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 1980Los Angeles, CA 90010Tel: (213) 389-4362Fax: (877) 789-5776
e-mail: go@gobklaw.comwebsite: www.gobklaw.com*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification

The post was migrated from Yahoo.