Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

Is the best practice to send the trustee both federal and state tax
returns? Or just federal?
Is the best practice to send the trustee both federal and state tax returns? Or just federal?

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I am impressed that you found a CPA that had read IRS Pub 908.
*Link Schrader, Attorney*
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
Mail: P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
Office: 106 W. 4th Street, Suite #308, Santa Ana, CA 92701
Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
San Diego: (619) 952-8342; Fax: (310) 878-4158
www.schrader-law.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Actually, there are two estates created when a husband and a wife file bk
(see section 302(b)). The IRS took the position during the time when Judge
Mund was Chief Judge that two returns were required. If I recall
correctly, she issued a general order that husband and wife cases were
considered jointly consolidated in the Central District, so that only one
return would be required (think about it, each and every asset case that
came from a joint filing would have had two tax return charges!!!)
It is unlikely that the tax preparer knows about this. Simply reading the
code would lead to the result that the tax preparer took.
Later, general orders are incorporated into the local rules, and the
general order is vacated. I believe that is what happened here. Read
next:
LBR 1015-1. CONSOLIDATION AND JOINT ADMINISTRATION
(a) Joint Cases. A joint case commenced for spouses by the filing of a
single petition under 11 U.S.C. 302(a) *will be deemed substantively
consolidated* unless the court orders otherwise. (emphasis added)
I guess this is the type of question for which you just have to be old to
know the answer
d
Actually, there are two estates created when a husband and a wife file bk (see section 302(b)). The IRS took the position during the time when Judge Mund was Chief Judge that two returns were required. If I recall correctly, she issued a general order that husband and wife cases were considered jointly consolidated in the Central District, so that only one return would be required (think about it, each and every asset case that came from a joint filing would have had two tax return charges!!!)
It is unlikely that the tax preparer knows about this. Simply reading the code would lead to the result that the tax preparer took.Later, general orders are incorporated into the local rules, and the general order is vacated. I believe that is what happened here. Read next:
LBR 1015-1. CONSOLIDATION AND JOINT ADMINISTRATION(a) Joint Cases. A joint case commenced for spouses by the filing of a single petition under 11 U.S.C. 302(a) will be deemed substantively consolidated unless the court orders otherwise. (emphasis added)
I guess this is the type of question for which you just have to be old to know the answer ;)d

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Counsel,
It was a simple no asset case. No surrender, debtor kept his underwater
home etc. The tax year was not split. The tax preparer just filed
separate tax returns, charged double and blamed it on the bankruptcy. Also,
I believe bankruptcy estate tax return would be filed by the trustee, but I
have never seen a bankruptcy estate tax return.
Best regards
Larry Webb
State Bar of California 229344
Central District California
"A Debt Relief Agency"
Check out my Blog
Larry@webbklaw. com
Law Offices of Larry Webb
484 Mobil Ste 43
Camarillo Ca 93010
P 805.987.1400
F 805.987.2866
C 805.750.2150

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Debts forgiven in BK are not generally taxable to the Debtor IRC Sec. 108(a)(1). Debtor should file form 982 with next tax return so the IRS knows debt was forgiven in BK and any Debt Forgiveness reported on 1099 will not count.
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
If it was not an asset case, and the debtor is single, is there also a tax debt on surrendered real property? Does the trustee submit tax docs to the IRS?
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
If it was an asset case then it made sense to split the tax year to prepetition tax debt and postpetition tax debt. The Estate pays the nondischargeable prepetition tax debt from proceeds of seized assets. Otherwise, the whole debt is considered postpetition and debtor has personal liability and responsibility for paying the entire claim. 26 U.S.C. 1398(g)(2).
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
>
>I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.
>
>A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I told the client to find a new CPA.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>
>Larry Webb
>Law Office of Larry Webb
>484 Mobil Ste 43
>Camarillo, Ca 93010
>805-987-1400
>Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Catherine's right of course. I presumed a no-asset Chapter 7 for no reason
grounded in reality.
On Apr 14, 2013 9:14 PM, "Catherine Christiansen"
wrote:
> **
>
>
> Surrendered real property on a no asset case sounds like the debtor
> surrendered the real property to the lender.
>
>
>
> Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
> 17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
> Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
> attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
> This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the
> recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or
> otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail
> message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law
> Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
> Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of
> representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this
> email does not contain any legal advice for you. NOTICE: We are a
> federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy
> Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
> problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.*
> *
> And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how
> wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
>
> * ***
> **
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Stephen Mark
> *To:* "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
>
>
> If it was not an asset case, and the debtor is single, is there also a tax
> debt on surrendered real property? Does the trustee submit tax docs to the
> IRS?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Catherine Christiansen
> *To:* "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:44 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
>
>
> If it was an asset case then it made sense to split the tax year to
> prepetition tax debt and postpetition tax debt. The Estate pays the
> nondischargeable prepetition tax debt from proceeds of seized assets.
> Otherwise, the whole debt is considered postpetition and debtor has
> personal liability and responsibility for paying the entire claim. 26
> U.S.C. 1398(g)(2).
>
>
>
> Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
> 17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
> Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
> attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
> This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the
> recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or
> otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail
> message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law
> Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
> Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of
> representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this
> email does not contain any legal advice for you. NOTICE: We are a
> federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy
> Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
> problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.*
> *
> And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how
> wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
>
> * ***
> **
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Jay Fleischman
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
>
>
> Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and
> postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
> On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
>
> **
>
> I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.****
> ** **
> A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on
> his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case
> was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service
> business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to
> file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated
> separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a
> bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and
> highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must
> be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA
> did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I
> told the client to find a new CPA.****
> ** **
> ** **
> ** **
> Best Regards****
> ** **
> ** **
> Larry Webb****
> Law Office of Larry Webb****
> 484 Mobil Ste 43****
> Camarillo, Ca 93010****
> 805-987-1400****
> Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net****
> ** **
> ** **
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Catherine's right of course. I presumed a no-asset Chapter 7 for no reason grounded in reality.
On Apr 14, 2013 9:14 PM, "Catherine Christiansen" <christiansenlaw@yahoo.com> wrote:
Surrendered real property on a no asset case sounds like the debtor surrendered the real property to the lender.
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572 attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Surrendered real property on a no asset case sounds like the debtor surrendered the real property to the lender.
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
If it was not an asset case, and the debtor is single, is there also a tax debt on surrendered real property? Does the trustee submit tax docs to the IRS?
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
If it was an asset case then it made sense to split the tax year to prepetition tax debt and postpetition tax debt. The Estate pays the nondischargeable prepetition tax debt from proceeds of seized assets. Otherwise, the whole debt is considered postpetition and debtor has personal liability and responsibility for paying the entire claim. 26 U.S.C. 1398(g)(2).
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
>
>I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.
>
>A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I told the client to find a new CPA.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>
>Larry Webb
>Law Office of Larry Webb
>484 Mobil Ste 43
>Camarillo, Ca 93010
>805-987-1400
>Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

If it was not an asset case, and the debtor is single, is there also a tax debt on surrendered real property? Does the trustee submit tax docs to the IRS?
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
If it was an asset case then it made sense to split the tax year to prepetition tax debt and postpetition tax debt. The Estate pays the nondischargeable prepetition tax debt from proceeds of seized assets. Otherwise, the whole debt is considered postpetition and debtor has personal liability and responsibility for paying the entire claim. 26 U.S.C. 1398(g)(2).
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
>
>I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.
>
>A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I told the client to find a new CPA.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>
>Larry Webb
>Law Office of Larry Webb
>484 Mobil Ste 43
>Camarillo, Ca 93010
>805-987-1400
>Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

If it was an asset case then it made sense to split the tax year to prepetition tax debt and postpetition tax debt. The Estate pays the nondischargeable prepetition tax debt from proceeds of seized assets. Otherwise, the whole debt is considered postpetition and debtor has personal liability and responsibility for paying the entire claim. 26 U.S.C. 1398(g)(2).
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
17011 Beach Blvd. Ste 900, Huntington Beach, CA 92647
Tel: (714) 375-6651 Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristiansen@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for the recipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are not named or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail message and any copies thereof and immediately notify Christiansen Law Offices by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.
Representation Note: If you have not signed a contract of representation, Christiansen Law Offices does not represent you, and this email does not contain anylegal advicefor you. NOTICE: We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States Bankruptcy Laws.We assist people with finding solutions to their debt problems,including filing petitions for relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is. Ephesians 3:18 NLT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax Returns
Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
>
>I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.
>
>A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I told the client to find a new CPA.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>
>Larry Webb
>Law Office of Larry Webb
>484 Mobil Ste 43
>Camarillo, Ca 93010
>805-987-1400
>Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and
postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" wrote:
> **
>
>
> I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.****
>
> ** **
>
> A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on
> his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case
> was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012. The debtor has a solo service
> business, gardening; debtor wife cleans houses. The CPA claimed he had to
> file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated
> separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a
> bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and
> highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must
> be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA
> did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I
> told the client to find a new CPA.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Best Regards****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Larry Webb****
>
> Law Office of Larry Webb****
>
> 484 Mobil Ste 43****
>
> Camarillo, Ca 93010****
>
> 805-987-1400****
>
> Email Webblaw@Earthlink.net****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
Sounds as if the CPA elected a shortened tax year and did a prefiling and postfiling return. Odd and unnecessary.
On Apr 14, 2013 1:52 PM, "Larry Webb" <larry@webbklaw.com> wrote:
I believe a former client was ripped off by his tax preparer.A former client has complained to me that his CPA charged him double on his tax returns this year because of his bankruptcy. His bankruptcy case was filed, discharged and dismissed in 2012.ouses. The CPA claimed he had to file separate returns because H&W bankruptcy estates taxes are treated separately. The client called me and I told him he was not filing a bankruptcy estate tax return. The CPA printed out IRS PUB 908 and highlighted the sentence Two separate bankruptcy estate tax returns must be filed. And told the client to show me the underlined section. The CPA did not highlight paragraphs that defines bankruptcy estate income. I told the client to find a new CPA.
rmal">Best Regards
Larry WebbLaw Office of Larry Webb484 Mobil Ste 43Camarillo, Ca 93010
805-987-1400Email
The post was migrated from Yahoo.