Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

I understand that a future interest has some value, but at present the
debtor does not have any interest that could be sold by a trustee to pay
creditors. Why would the debtor's future interest be worth more than a
life insurance policy contingent upon the policy holder dying before the
beneficiary?
*Link Schrader, Attorney*
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com

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Hello Holly:
On this one, I might just punt and list the value as "unknown." The
trustee can't sell this interest until Mom dies. But let's say Mom dies
tomorrow. Does the Southern California trustee want to sell a third
interest in fine Minnesota swampland?
That assumes that the purpose of your question is to determine what value
to report on the property in your debtor's schedules.
John D. Faucher
Faucher & Associates
*818/889-8080*
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Holly Roark wrote:
>
>
> Debtor has a 1/3 remainder interest in a life estate. According to
> actuarial tables, mom is estimated to live another 11.48 years.
>
> If the property (120 acres and a house) is worth $278,200 now, and debtor
> will own 1/3 of it in an estimated 11.48 years, what % do I use to
> determine the present value of his interest? The property is in Minnesota
> and is woods and swamp, no crops. According to tax records the value is
> decreasing each year, by 2 - 4K. (It's questionable whether the value is
> actually $278K as that is just what the tax rolls say. It's probably worth
> less, but for the sake of this exercise, let's just go with the figures
> I've given.)
>
> Can someone please explain how I determine what % to use, and what is the
> rationale behind it, whether it's a high % or a low %? Thank you.
>
>
> Holly Roark
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> holly@roarklawoffices.com **primary email address**
> www.roarklawoffices.com
> Central District of California
> Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
> 1875 Century Park East, Suite 600
> Los Angeles, CA 90067
> T (310) 553-2600
> F (310) 553-2601
>
> *By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
>
>
> **For a quicker response, email me at holly@roarklawoffices.com.
> I only use gmail for my listservs, and am likely to miss private emails
> directed to my gmail account.**
>
>
>
>
Hello Holly:On this one, I might just punt and list the value as "unknown." The trustee can't sell this interest until Mom dies. But let's say Mom dies tomorrow. Does the Southern California trustee want to sell a third interest in fine Minnesota swampland?
That assumes that the purpose of your question is to determine what value to report on the property in your debtor's schedules.
John D. Faucher
Faucher & Associates818/889-8080
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Holly Roark <
Debtor has a 1/3 remainder interest in a life estate. According to actuarial tables, mom is estimated to live another 11.48 years.If the property (120 acres and a house) is worth $278,200 now, and debtor will own 1/3 of it in an estimated 11.48 years, what % do I use to determine the present value of his interest? The property is in Minnesota and is woods and swamp, no crops. According to tax records the value is decreasing each year, by 2 - 4K. (It's questionable whether the value is actually $278K as that is just what the tax rolls say. It's probably worth less, but for the sa
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The IRS sets guidelines. You might look here:
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-048-006.html.
The formula you need is (1 - [the discount rate])^[life expectancy in
years]. This will give you a fractional answer that you can multiply
against the 1/3*[the market value]. I'd be wary of using the tax roll
value. You might instead try to get a real estate agent to write a letter
stating the approximate value.
OTOH, if you want to stick just to the tax documents -- including its
implied discount rate -- the discount rate would be as 4 / (278 - 4)
0.0144 or 1.4% (assuming that the price drops $4k annually). Plugging this
in to the equation produces a drop of almost exactly 15% in 11.5 years. The
present value of the future interest would be approximately 1/3rd of
$236.5k or about $79k.
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Holly Roark wrote:
>
>
> Debtor has a 1/3 remainder interest in a life estate. According to
> actuarial tables, mom is estimated to live another 11.48 years.
>
> If the property (120 acres and a house) is worth $278,200 now, and debtor
> will own 1/3 of it in an estimated 11.48 years, what % do I use to
> determine the present value of his interest? The property is in Minnesota
> and is woods and swamp, no crops. According to tax records the value is
> decreasing each year, by 2 - 4K. (It's questionable whether the value is
> actually $278K as that is just what the tax rolls say. It's probably worth
> less, but for the sake of this exercise, let's just go with the figures
> I've given.)
>
> Can someone please explain how I determine what % to use, and what is the
> rationale behind it, whether it's a high % or a low %? Thank you.
>
>
> Holly Roark
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> holly@roarklawoffices.com **primary email address**
> www.roarklawoffices.com
> Central District of California
> Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney
> 1875 Century Park East, Suite 600
> Los Angeles, CA 90067
> T (310) 553-2600
> F (310) 553-2601
>
> *By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
>
>
> **For a quicker response, email me at holly@roarklawoffices.com.
> I only use gmail for my listservs, and am likely to miss private emails
> directed to my gmail account.**
>
>
>
>
The IRS sets guidelines. You might look here:
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