Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

I just submitted the papers for the 3rd time. I had the Judge's copy submitted by messenger and followed up with another declaration of service of the judge's copy. This one was done with the Declaration of NonOpp since I didn't have time to do it with a hearing before the next confirmation. It is uncontested and all the evidence and facts are there so my fingers are crossed.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I agree with Kirk. If you look in the Court Manual, appendix F under 2.2
(c), it says not to serve. That's also consistent with LBR 5005-2(d)(4)
which states that exceptions to serving the judge a courtesy copy can be
found in the Court Manual.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
www.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:15 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
>
>
> Not necessary to serve the judge the motion on negative notice. Just serve
> her the Declaration after the 17 days has passed and lodge the order.
> On Dec 18, 2013 3:14 PM, "Steven B. Lever" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> So if we go with the 9013-1(o) method, do I need to serve a Judges Copy
>> when we serve the creditors? Usually we do not and just serve it after no
>> objection as an exhibit to the declaration of nonopposition.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here, Im not so sure with this judge. Maybe I should serve a Judge>> Copy in the beginning and at the declaration stage. What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Michael Avanesian
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:24 PM
>> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Judge Brand Judge's Copy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a newbie.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my opinion, if on the first time you "did it correctly" but the judge
>> didn't get a copy, you should have done it differently the second time
>> (maybe you did and I misunderstood). I don't know what you should do
>> different but maybe personal delivery is your best option on try #3.
>>
>>
>>
>> I looked at the tentative and the Judge wants you to send a notice of
>> hearing and provide her with a Judge's Copy. Your problem is the next
>> available hearing date is February 26. When I glance through her tentative
>> rulings, she has "appearances waived" and "no appearances necessary." To
>> me, that indicates she does not want to see people who have had their
>> appearance waived. I think she will be highly annoyed if you show up and
>> ask to be put into her full calendar. That's your discretion though.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've personally never filed a 522(f) but my question to you is if it's
>> critical to resolve this issue before the hearing on confirmation, why not
>> run it through 9013-1(o)? It does not seem like an opposition was filed.
>> Make sure you have admissible evidence. That solves your problem as you can
>> lodge a dec non opp at least a week before the confirmation hearing and
>> during the hearing (in a nice way) you can inform the Court that you've
>> lodged an order about X days ago and are waiting for the Court to enter an
>> order.
>>
>>
>>
>> Something else to consider is if no one is at the door when you make the
>> personal delivery. Wait a couple of days and give the clerk a friendly
>> courtesy call to make sure she received it. Her law clerk has been very
>> nice to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this was somewhat helpful. I try to delve into these issues
>> because it helps me learn.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Michael Avanesian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Steven B. Lever
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have now gone through 2 rounds with the Judges copy requirement with
>> Judge Brand. My 522f motion was denied for lack of a judges copy in
>> October, and the POS was defective, even though we gave a copy, so we did
>> it right and USPS next day mailed it and the tracking # showed it was
>> delivered.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now the hearing is tomorrow and the judge took it off calendar for lack
>> of a Judges Copy again, but I know it was sent, with the right POS to the
>> right place. Maybe she didnt get it, but not for any fault of mine that I
>> can tell.
>>
>>
>>
>> So Im thinking about going to the hearing with a Judges Copy and asking
>> for a continuance to the confirmation hearing in January, or things will
>> really get messed up. The confirmation hearing was already continued once
>> to take care of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you think she may allow a continuance if I show up with the Judges
>> Copy and personally deliver it to her box after waving it at the podium?
>> Or if you cannot opine on that, do you know anything I may have missed on
>> the Judges copy requirement? I read the entire 10 page Appendix F that is
>> redlined and know the procedures, but is there something unwritten, like
>> you cannot put it in envelopes (I saw in OC they dont want envelopes for
>> security reasons.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Steven B. Lever
>>
>> >( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>>
>> >( Fax (562) 485-6886
>>
>> >* sblever@leverlaw.com
>>
>> > www.leverlaw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
I agree with Kirk. If you look in the Court Manual, appendix F under 2.2 (c), it says not to serve. That's also consistent with LBR 5005-2(d)(4) which states that exceptions to serving the judge a courtesy copy can be found in the Court Manual.
Sincerely, Michael AvanesianLaw Offices of David A. Tilem
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Not necessary to serve the judge the motion on negative notice. Just serve
her the Declaration after the 17 days has passed and lodge the order.
On Dec 18, 2013 3:14 PM, "Steven B. Lever" wrote:
>
>
> So if we go with the 9013-1(o) method, do I need to serve a Judges Copy
> when we serve the creditors? Usually we do not and just serve it after no
> objection as an exhibit to the declaration of nonopposition.
>
>
>
> Here, Im not so sure with this judge. Maybe I should serve a Judges
> Copy in the beginning and at the declaration stage. What do you think?
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Michael Avanesian
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:24 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Judge Brand Judge's Copy
>
>
>
>
>
> Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a newbie.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, if on the first time you "did it correctly" but the judge
> didn't get a copy, you should have done it differently the second time
> (maybe you did and I misunderstood). I don't know what you should do
> different but maybe personal delivery is your best option on try #3.
>
>
>
> I looked at the tentative and the Judge wants you to send a notice of
> hearing and provide her with a Judge's Copy. Your problem is the next
> available hearing date is February 26. When I glance through her tentative
> rulings, she has "appearances waived" and "no appearances necessary." To
> me, that indicates she does not want to see people who have had their
> appearance waived. I think she will be highly annoyed if you show up and
> ask to be put into her full calendar. That's your discretion though.
>
>
>
> I've personally never filed a 522(f) but my question to you is if it's
> critical to resolve this issue before the hearing on confirmation, why not
> run it through 9013-1(o)? It does not seem like an opposition was filed.
> Make sure you have admissible evidence. That solves your problem as you can
> lodge a dec non opp at least a week before the confirmation hearing and
> during the hearing (in a nice way) you can inform the Court that you've
> lodged an order about X days ago and are waiting for the Court to enter an
> order.
>
>
>
> Something else to consider is if no one is at the door when you make the
> personal delivery. Wait a couple of days and give the clerk a friendly
> courtesy call to make sure she received it. Her law clerk has been very
> nice to me.
>
>
>
> I hope this was somewhat helpful. I try to delve into these issues because
> it helps me learn.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Avanesian
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Steven B. Lever
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have now gone through 2 rounds with the Judges copy requirement with
> Judge Brand. My 522f motion was denied for lack of a judges copy in
> October, and the POS was defective, even though we gave a copy, so we did
> it right and USPS next day mailed it and the tracking # showed it was
> delivered.
>
>
>
> Now the hearing is tomorrow and the judge took it off calendar for lack of
> a Judges Copy again, but I know it was sent, with the right POS to the
> right place. Maybe she didnt get it, but not for any fault of mine that I
> can tell.
>
>
>
> So Im thinking about going to the hearing with a Judges Copy and asking
> for a continuance to the confirmation hearing in January, or things will
> really get messed up. The confirmation hearing was already continued once
> to take care of this.
>
>
>
> Do you think she may allow a continuance if I show up with the Judges
> Copy and personally deliver it to her box after waving it at the podium?
> Or if you cannot opine on that, do you know anything I may have missed on
> the Judges copy requirement? I read the entire 10 page Appendix F that is
> redlined and know the procedures, but is there something unwritten, like
> you cannot put it in envelopes (I saw in OC they dont want envelopes for
> security reasons.)
>
>
>
> Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> >
>
> > Steven B. Lever
>
> >( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>
> >( Fax (562) 485-6886
>
> >* sblever@leverlaw.com
>
> > www.leverlaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Not necessary to serve the judge the motion on negative notice. Just serve her the Declaration after the 17 days has passed and lodge the order.
On Dec 18, 2013 3:14 PM, "Steven B. Lever" <sblever@leverlaw.com> wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

So if we go with the 9013-1(o) method, do I need to serve a Judge's Copy
when we serve the creditors? Usually we do not and just serve it after
no objection as an exhibit to the declaration of nonopposition.
Here, I'm not so sure with this judge. Maybe I should serve a Judge's
Copy in the beginning and at the declaration stage. What do you think?

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Thank you. That's very helpful and persuasive. I was wondering about
the difference between "no appearance necessary" and "appearance
waived". I did do it differently the 2nd time using the USPS next day
delivery, but the confirmation only gives the zip. I wonder if the USPS
will really go through security to put the package up there or it just
said here you go to security at the ground floor.
So I think I'm going to take your advice and do it without a hearing
this time.
Steve

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
I am also assuming that Steve has been to the judges webpage and double
checked the local local rules. As mentioned below, for example, the
Orange County BK court will throw away your judges copy if it arrives in an
envelope.
I just came out of a state court room where the judge has procedures printed
out and available at the counsel table. When I asked where those were found
online, I was told they were not. Good luck to those out-of-town lawyers in
there.
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a newbie.
In my opinion, if on the first time you "did it correctly" but the judge
didn't get a copy, you should have done it differently the second time
(maybe you did and I misunderstood). I don't know what you should do
different but maybe personal delivery is your best option on try #3.
I looked at the tentative and the Judge wants you to send a notice of
hearing and provide her with a Judge's Copy. Your problem is the next
available hearing date is February 26. When I glance through her tentative
rulings, she has "appearances waived" and "no appearances necessary." To
me, that indicates she does not want to see people who have had their
appearance waived. I think she will be highly annoyed if you show up and
ask to be put into her full calendar. That's your discretion though.
I've personally never filed a 522(f) but my question to you is if it's
critical to resolve this issue before the hearing on confirmation, why not
run it through 9013-1(o)? It does not seem like an opposition was filed.
Make sure you have admissible evidence. That solves your problem as you can
lodge a dec non opp at least a week before the confirmation hearing and
during the hearing (in a nice way) you can inform the Court that you've
lodged an order about X days ago and are waiting for the Court to enter an
order.
Something else to consider is if no one is at the door when you make the
personal delivery. Wait a couple of days and give the clerk a friendly
courtesy call to make sure she received it. Her law clerk has been very
nice to me.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I try to delve into these issues because
it helps me learn.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Steven B. Lever wrote:
>
>
> I have now gone through 2 rounds with the Judges copy requirement with
> Judge Brand. My 522f motion was denied for lack of a judges copy in
> October, and the POS was defective, even though we gave a copy, so we did
> it right and USPS next day mailed it and the tracking # showed it was
> delivered.
>
>
>
> Now the hearing is tomorrow and the judge took it off calendar for lack of
> a Judges Copy again, but I know it was sent, with the right POS to the
> right place. Maybe she didnt get it, but not for any fault of mine that I
> can tell.
>
>
>
> So Im thinking about going to the hearing with a Judges Copy and asking
> for a continuance to the confirmation hearing in January, or things will
> really get messed up. The confirmation hearing was already continued once
> to take care of this.
>
>
>
> Do you think she may allow a continuance if I show up with the Judges
> Copy and personally deliver it to her box after waving it at the podium?
> Or if you cannot opine on that, do you know anything I may have missed on
> the Judges copy requirement? I read the entire 10 page Appendix F that is
> redlined and know the procedures, but is there something unwritten, like
> you cannot put it in envelopes (I saw in OC they dont want envelopes for
> security reasons.)
>
>
>
> Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> >
>
> > Steven B. Lever
>
> >( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>
> >( Fax (562) 485-6886
>
> >* sblever@leverlaw.com
>
> > www.leverlaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a newbie.In my opinion, if on the first time you "did it correctly" but the judge didn't get a copy, you should have done it differently the second time (maybe you did and I misunderstood). I don't know what you should do different but maybe personal delivery is your best option on try #3.
I looked at the tentative and the Judge wants you to send a notice of hearing and provide her with a Judge's Copy. Your problem is the next available hearing date is February 26. When I glance through her tentative rulings, she has "appearances waived" and "no appearances necessary." To me, that indicates she does not want to see people who have had their appearance waived. I think she will be highly annoyed if you show up and ask to be put into her full calendar. That's your discretion though.
I've personally never filed a 522(f) but my question to you is if it's critical to resolve this issue before the hearing on confirmation, why not run it through 9013-1(o)? It does not seem like an opposition was filed. Make sure you have admissible evidence. That solves your problem as you can lodge a dec non opp at least a week before the confirmation hearing and during the hearing (in a nice way) you can inform the Court that you've lodged an order about X days ago and are waiting for the Court to enter an order.
Something else to consider is if no one is at the door when you make the personal delivery. Wait a couple of days and give the clerk a friendly courtesy call to make sure she received it. Her law clerk has been very nice to me.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I try to delve into these issues because it helps me learn.Sincerely, Michael Avanesian
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Steven B. Lever <sblever@leverlaw.com> wrote:
I have now gone through 2 rounds with the Judges copy requirement with Judge Brand. My 522f motion was denied for lack of a judges copy in October, and the POS was defective, even though we gave a copy, so we did it right and USPS next day mailed it and the tracking # showed it was delivered.
So Im thinking about going to the hearing with a Judges Copy and asking for a continuance to the confirmation hearing in January, or things will really get messed up. The confirmation hearing was already continued once to take care of this.
Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>> Steven B. Lever
>( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>( Fax (562) 485-6886
>*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I have now gone through 2 rounds with the Judge's copy requirement with
Judge Brand. My 522f motion was denied for lack of a judge's copy in
October, and the POS was defective, even though we gave a copy, so we
did it right and USPS next day mailed it and the tracking # showed it
was delivered.
Now the hearing is tomorrow and the judge took it off calendar for lack
of a Judge's Copy again, but I know it was sent, with the right POS to
the right place. Maybe she didn't get it, but not for any fault of mine
that I can tell.
So I'm thinking about going to the hearing with a Judge's Copy and
asking for a continuance to the confirmation hearing in January, or
things will really get messed up. The confirmation hearing was already
continued once to take care of this.
Do you think she may allow a continuance if I show up with the Judge's
Copy and personally deliver it to her box after waving it at the podium?
Or if you cannot opine on that, do you know anything I may have missed
on the Judge's copy requirement? I read the entire 10 page Appendix F
that is redlined and know the procedures, but is there something
unwritten, like you cannot put it in envelopes (I saw in OC they don't
want envelopes for security reasons.)
Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> Steven B. Lever
>( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>( Fax (562) 485-6886
>* sblever@leverlaw.com
> www.leverlaw.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.