.jpg)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
family law/ bk crossover
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Correct: in that situation, Betsy will not get a discharge of that debt in
CH7. She needs to file a CH13 to discharge it.
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:09 PM, wrote:
>
>
> If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to
> Citibank, then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving
> codebtor John to pay the Citibank card, then even though the obligation to
> Citibank is discharged, 523(a)(15) excepts from discharge the
> indemnification of John for that debt.
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>
> I am having a great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the
> scenario, John and Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In
> connection with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex
> and Betsy will pay the Citibank Card.
>
> It is now six months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay
> the Citibank Card and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
> court.
>
> And because the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the
> allocation of the debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
>
> This just does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
> causeylaw@gmail.com
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC
> 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error
> is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:38 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> John asked: W can discharge her separate credit card liability before
> divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card
> liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is
> nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right? John, you are correct
> to the extent that the debt assignment is nondischargeable under 523(a).
>
> Not sure what you mean in your second comment. W cant discharge credit
> cards in Hs name.
>
> Sometimes the best solution is for both to file a joint BK prior to
> divorce to clean up and get rid of debts altogether.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
>
> Certified Family Law Specialist
>
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
>
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
>
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
>
> 325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
>
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
>
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
>
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
>
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
> error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and
> all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
> Thank you.
>
> *A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!*
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *On Behalf Of *John Faucher
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:33 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> If I understand Vernon's family-law argument, W can discharge her separate
> credit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his
> remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that
> debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right?
>
> My question would be whether the ex H in this case would have a credit
> card liability after the W discharges it. If not, I would think W should
> file bk pre-div.
>
> - John D. Faucher
>
> ----------------------->
> *From:* Catherine Christiansen
> *To:* "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit
> card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA
> then it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't
> she file BK before MSA?
>
> Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
>
> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq." vle@vlelaw.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yelena:
>
> Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly! Will that
> resolve the issues of debt allocation in the divorce? Not favorably for
> her.
>
> The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP
> assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the
> division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal
> to half the credit card debt.
>
> Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
>
> Certified Family Law Specialist
>
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
>
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
>
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
>
> 325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
>
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
>
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
>
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
>
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
> error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and
> all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
> Thank you.
>
> *A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!*
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Yelena Gurevich
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done,
> but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit
> cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened
> using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want
> any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
>
> My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or
> is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
> (818) 732-9083
> attylenagurevich@gmail.com
> www.calgroup.org
>
>
>
Correct: in that situation, Betsy will not get a discharge of that debt in CH7. She needs to file a CH13 to discharge it.On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:09 PM, <jesseelaw@aol.com> wrote:
If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to Citibank,
then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving codebtor John
topay theCitibank card,then even though the obligation to
Citibank is discharged, 523(a)(15)excepts from discharge the
indemnification of John for that debt.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.
Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
I am having a
great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the scenario, John and
Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection with the
divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsy will pay the
Citibank Card.
It is now six
months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay the Citibank Card
and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
court.
And because
the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the allocation of the
debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
This just
does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
Correct: in that situation, Betsy will not get a discharge of that debt in
CH7. She needs to file a CH13 to discharge it.
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:09 PM, wrote:
>
>
> If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to
> Citibank, then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving
> codebtor John to pay the Citibank card, then even though the obligation to
> Citibank is discharged, 523(a)(15) excepts from discharge the
> indemnification of John for that debt.
>
> Mark T. Jessee
> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
> "A Debt Relief Agency"
> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
>
>
>
> I am having a great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the
> scenario, John and Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In
> connection with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex
> and Betsy will pay the Citibank Card.
>
> It is now six months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay
> the Citibank Card and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
> court.
>
> And because the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the
> allocation of the debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
>
> This just does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
> causeylaw@gmail.com
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC
> 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error
> is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:38 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> John asked: W can discharge her separate credit card liability before
> divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card
> liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is
> nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right? John, you are correct
> to the extent that the debt assignment is nondischargeable under 523(a).
>
> Not sure what you mean in your second comment. W cant discharge credit
> cards in Hs name.
>
> Sometimes the best solution is for both to file a joint BK prior to
> divorce to clean up and get rid of debts altogether.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
>
> Certified Family Law Specialist
>
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
>
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
>
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
>
> 325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
>
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
>
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
>
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
>
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
> error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and
> all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
> Thank you.
>
> *A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!*
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *On Behalf Of *John Faucher
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:33 AM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> If I understand Vernon's family-law argument, W can discharge her separate
> credit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his
> remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that
> debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right?
>
> My question would be whether the ex H in this case would have a credit
> card liability after the W discharges it. If not, I would think W should
> file bk pre-div.
>
> - John D. Faucher
>
> ----------------------->
> *From:* Catherine Christiansen
> *To:* "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit
> card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA
> then it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't
> she file BK before MSA?
>
> Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
>
> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq." vle@vlelaw.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yelena:
>
> Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly! Will that
> resolve the issues of debt allocation in the divorce? Not favorably for
> her.
>
> The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP
> assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the
> division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal
> to half the credit card debt.
>
> Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
>
> Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
>
> Certified Family Law Specialist
>
> California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
>
> A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
>
> Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
>
> 325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
>
> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
>
> (805) 446-6262 Phone
>
> (661) 222-2922 Phone
>
> (805) 446-6264 Fax
>
> This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
> messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW
> OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not
> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in
> error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
> 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and
> all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.
> Thank you.
>
> *A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!*
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Yelena Gurevich
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
>
>
>
> I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done,
> but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit
> cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened
> using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want
> any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
>
> My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or
> is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
> (818) 732-9083
> attylenagurevich@gmail.com
> www.calgroup.org
>
>
>
Correct: in that situation, Betsy will not get a discharge of that debt in CH7. She needs to file a CH13 to discharge it.On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:09 PM, <jesseelaw@aol.com> wrote:
If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to Citibank,
then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving codebtor John
topay theCitibank card,then even though the obligation to
Citibank is discharged, 523(a)(15)excepts from discharge the
indemnification of John for that debt.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.
Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
I am having a
great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the scenario, John and
Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection with the
divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsy will pay the
Citibank Card.
It is now six
months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay the Citibank Card
and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
court.
And because
the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the allocation of the
debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
This just
does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to Citibank, then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving codebtorJohn to pay the Citibank card, then even though the obligation to Citibank
is discharged, 523(a)(15) excepts from discharge the indemnification of
John for that debt.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
I am having a great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the
scenario, John and Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection
with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsywill pay the Citibank Card.
It is now six months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay
the Citibank Card and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
court.
And because the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the
allocation of the debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?This just does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed underthe Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and
(c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have
received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and
delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use
of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:38 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
John asked: W can discharge her separate credit card liability before
divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card liability
as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is nondischargeable.
Vernon, did I get that right? John, you are correct to the extent that the
debt assignment is nondischargeable under 523(a).
Not sure what you mean in your second comment. W cant discharge credit
cards in Hs name.
Sometimes the best solution is for both to file a joint BK prior to
divorce to clean up and get rid of debts altogether.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAWOFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this
message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error,
please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all
copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank you.
A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Faucher
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:33 AM
To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
If I understand Vernon's family-law argument, W can discharge her separatecredit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and
that debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right?
My question would be whether the ex H in this case would have a credit
card liability after the W discharges it. If not, I would think W should file
bk pre-div.
- John D. Faucher
____________________________________
(mailto:christiansenlaw@yahoo.com) >
To: "_cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com) "
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit
card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA then
it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't shefile BK before MSA?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq."
wrote:
Yelena:
Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly! Will that
resolve the issues of debt allocation in the divorce? Not favorably for her.
The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP
assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the division
of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal to half
the credit card debt.
Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail
messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAWOFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this
message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error,
please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805)
446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all
copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank you.
A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yelena Gurevich
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done,
but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The creditcards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex openedusing her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want any
debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated oris there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
Best Regards,
Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
_(818) 732-9083_ (https://www.google.com/voice/b/0#phones)
_attylenagurevich@gmail.com_ (mailto:attylenagurevich@gmail.com)
_www.calgroup.org_ (http://www.calgroup.org/)
If the family law judgment says Betsy will indemnify John as to Citibank,
then she discharges her contractual liability to Citibank leaving codebtor John
to pay the Citibank card, then even though the obligation toCitibank is discharged, 523(a)(15) excepts from discharge the
indemnification of John for that debt.
Mark T.
JesseeLaw Offices of Mark T. Jessee"A Debt Relief Agency"50 W.Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200Thousand Oaks, CA 91360(805) 497-5868 (805)
497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 1/16/2014 9:58:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
causeylaw@gmail.com writes:
I am having a
great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the scenario, John and
Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsy will pay the
Citibank Card.
It is now six
months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay the Citibank Card
and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy
court.
And because
the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the allocation of the
debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
This just
does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
Desiree
Causey, Esq.
Law Office of
Desiree Causey
17011 Beach
Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington
Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646
(fax)
Any tax
advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was
not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for
the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law
provisions.Privileged And Confidential Communication.This
electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected
by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may
contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for
the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this
electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the
electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly
prohibited.Please consider the environment before printing this
e-mail.
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vernon L. Ellicott,
Esq.Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:38 PMTo:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk
crossover
John asked:
W can discharge her separate credit card
liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining
credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right? John, you are correct to the extent
that the debt assignment is nondischargeable under 523(a).
Not sure what
you mean in your second comment. W cant discharge credit cards in Hs
name.
Sometimes the
best solution is for both to file a joint BK prior to divorce to clean up and
get rid of debts altogether.
Vernon L.
Ellicott, Esq.
Certified
Family Law Specialist
California
State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy
and Family Law Firm
Law Offices
of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E.
Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand
Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805)
446-6262 Phone
(661)
222-2922 Phone
(805)
446-6264 Fax
This e-mail
transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to
it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L.
ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and
destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any
kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank
you.
A bad day
on the bike is better than a good day on the golf
course!
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
The constitution says that no state can pass a law that impairs a contract. Only bk does the dirty work. If your client files, the divorce court can try to allocate more spousal support to your client because your client won't have any liability for the credit card debt. But recall 523a15 makes debts assigned in a divorce nondischargeable.
Tell client the risks of going first and let the client decide. If your client has no income, or a lot less that nonfiling spouse, I would file first.
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 4:52 PM, Yelena Gurevich wrote:
>
> I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done, but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
>
> My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
> (818) 732-9083
> attylenagurevich@gmail.com
> www.calgroup.org
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Hello Vernon:
What I meant was that H might owe some credit card debt, and W might owe some credit card debt. Some of it might be the same debt, for which they are jointly and severally liable. Whatever W discharges before divorce is gone, but if there's a j&s debt out there, half of it could come back to her as part of the divorce settlement even if she has discharged her "severally" part of that debt.
- John D. Faucher
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
John asked: W can discharge her separate credit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right? John, you are correct to the extent that the debt assignment is nondischargeable under 523(a).
Not sure what you mean in your second comment. W cant discharge credit cards in Hs name.
Sometimes the best solution is for both to file a joint BK prior to divorce to clean up and get rid of debts altogether.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Faucher
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:33 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
If I understand Vernon's family-law argument, W can discharge her separate credit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right?
My question would be whether the ex H in this case would have a credit card liability after the W discharges it. If not, I would think W should file bk pre-div.
- John D. Faucher
________________________________
From:Catherine Christiansen
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA then it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't she file BK before MSA?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq." wrote:
Yelena:
Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly!The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal to half the credit card debt.
Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yelena Gurevich
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done, but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
Best Regards,
Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
(818) 732-9083
attylenagurevich@gmail.com
www.calgroup.org
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
I am having a great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the scenario, John and Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsy will pay the Citibank Card.
It is now six months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay the Citibank Card and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy court.
And because the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the allocation of the debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
This just does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
I am having a great deal of trouble with this. As I understand the scenario, John and Betsy have some debt and then get a divorce. In connection with the divorce, they allocate the debt, John will pay the Amex and Betsy will pay the Citibank Card.
It is now six months later and Betsy gets laid off and can no longer pay the Citibank Card and some other debts and seeks relief from the bankruptcy court.
And because the stipulated judgment entered by the state court lists the allocation of the debt to each of the parties, IT IS NOW NOT DISCHARGABLE?
This just does not seem right to me. Or am I missing something.
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
If I understand Vernon's family-law argument, W can discharge her separate credit card liability before divorce. H can then tag her with half of his remaining credit card liability as part of the divorce settlement, and that debt is nondischargeable. Vernon, did I get that right?
My question would be whether the ex H in this case would have a credit card liability after the W discharges it. If not, I would think W should file bk pre-div.
- John D. Faucher
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA then it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't she file BK before MSA?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq." wrote:
Yelena:
Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly!The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal to half the credit card debt.
Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yelena Gurevich
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done, but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
Best Regards,
Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
(818) 732-9083
attylenagurevich@gmail.com
www.calgroup.org
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Question: If W files BK on debt before MSA then debt is simply credit card debt and dischargeable. However, if credit card debt is part of MSA then it is nondischargeable in Ch 7. So if W wants to file Ch 7 shouldn't she file BK before MSA?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:07 PM, "Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq." wrote:
Yelena:
Will Ws credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly!The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal to half the credit card debt.
Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way.A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yelena Gurevich
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:53 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] family law/ bk crossover
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done, but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
Best Regards,
Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
(818) 732-9083
attylenagurevich@gmail.com
www.calgroup.org
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Yelena:
Will W's credit card debt be discharged in a BK? Certainly! Will that resolve the issues of debt allocation in the divorce? Not favorably for her.
The divorce is not done if the division of CP debt and assignment of CP assets has not been done. W should not file the BK until after the division of assets and debts, otherwise she will be giving H a gift equal to half the credit card debt.
Call me if you need to discuss the issue.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
325 E. Hillcrest Dr., #150
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-7799
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
This e-mail transmission and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential information from the LAW OFFICES OF VERNON L. ELLICOTT that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, or by telephone at (805) 446-6262, and destroy the original transmission and its attachments and all copies of any kind, without reading them or saving them in any way. Thank you.
A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course!
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is done,
but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability. The credit
cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some the ex opened
using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex does not want
any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be eliminated or
is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a divorce.
Best Regards,
Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
(818) 732-9083
attylenagurevich@gmail.com
www.calgroup.org
I have a prospect that is going through a divorce. The divorce is
done, but she and her ex husband still need to divide the liability.
The credit cards are all under her name but were used by the ex. Some
the ex opened using her name. Since everything is under her name the ex
does not want any debt allocated to him in the divorce.
My question is if she files for bankruptcy, will the debt be
eliminated or is there a limitation when it comes debts allocated in a
divorce.-- Best Regards,Yelena Gurevich, Esq.
(818) 732-9083attylenagurevich@gmail.com
www.calgroup.org
The post was migrated from Yahoo.