Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

HMMM!
Sal Sciortino
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Clarification Needed on Basic Concept Re. Property of Estate
Hmmmm, Wes and Larry? Helen, comments?
D
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 28, 2013, at 6:35 PM, "Wesley H. Avery" wrote:
>Hmmm.
>
>Wesley H. Avery
>Wesley H. Avery, Esq.
>Bankruptcy Trustee
>wavery@rpmlaw.com
>28005 Smyth Drive, Ste. 117
>Valencia, CA 91355-4023
>(661) 295-4674 (office)
>(661) 430-5467 (fax)
>(661) 618-7376 (cell)
>
>
>Certified Specialist
>Bankruptcy Law
>State Bar of California
>
>Board Certified
>Business Bankruptcy Law
>American Board of Certification
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>
>
>
>From:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Simons
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 8:27 PM
>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Clarification Needed on Basic Concept Re. Property of Estate
>
>
>None are, don't worry
>Sent from my Blackberry
>
>Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 06:04 PM
>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Clarification Needed on Basic Concept Re. Property of Estate
>
>
>Nice.
>
>A word to the wise, I remember a case somewhere in the past where a doctor owned a clinic. He made x bucks postpetition. The trustee said part of that was profit from the clinic and part was for the docs personal services. The personal services portion was
only 30% I think - that would be intensely fact driven. I hope no trustees are reading this.
>
>--- In mailto:cdcbaa%40yahoogroups.com, Michael Avanesian wrote:
>>
>> This section of the book is written in an extremely convoluted way. I used
>> amazon to look at the page referenced.
>>
>> Section 11 on page 12 is talking about Post Petition Rents/Proceeds. I
>> think a good example to articulate their idea (assuming no other rules
>> applied) is:
>>
>> Supposed I am paid $3,000 in cash, to stand on the street and hold a sign
>> for 3 days. At 12:00 a.m. on the second day, I file for bankruptcy. This is
>> covered by 541(a)(6), "(6) Proceeds, product, offspring, rents, or profits
>> of or from property of the estate, *EXCEPT such as are earnings from
>> services performed by an individual debtor after the commencement of the
>> case.*"
>>
>> So I would say $1,000 is prepetition and part of the estate while $2,000 is
>> postpetition and not part of the estate.
>>
>> I believe when the authors say that "proceeds from personal services by an
>> individual debtor are not property of the estate even if earned before the
>> petition" they mean that money given to an individual debtor, *before they
>> file for bankruptcy*, for personal services that end up being *performed
>> after bankruptcy* are not property of the estate.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Michael Avanesian
>> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
>> http://www.tilemlaw.com/
>> 818-507-6000
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Leventhal Law Group, P.C. wrote:
>>
>> > **
>> >
>> >
>> > It holds the door open nicely
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
>> > Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
>> > 818-347-5800
>> >
>> > NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice
>> > for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email. You must comply with
>> > California Law and give notice to a person in my office during regular
>> > business hours.
>> >
>> > This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
>> > and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
>> > review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
>> > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> > please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original
>> > and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
>> >
>> > Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
>> >
>> > Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a
>> > written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the
>> > Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been
>> > paid.
>> >
>> > On Jul 27, 2013, at 2:33 PM, "pat@..."
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > But u told us to buy it.
>> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> > ------------------------------
>> > *Sender: * mailto:cdcbaa%40yahoogroups.com
>> > *Date: *Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:24:24 -0700
>> > *To: mailto:%2Acdcbaa%40yahoogroups.com
>> > *ReplyTo: * mailto:cdcbaa%40yahoogroups.com
>> > *Subject: *Re: [cdcbaa] Clarification Needed on Basic Concept Re.
>> > Property of Estate
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > find a shredder and throw the book into it. There are lots of times
>> > income earned prepetition are included in the estate. e.g.
>> > real estate commissions when case filed before the closing.
>> > royalties, etc, etc. etc
>> > d
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Jeffrey Hsu wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Imagine the basic scenario in almost every ch7 consumer case: John files
>> > ch7 personal BK on Jan 1. The next day after the commencement of the case,
>> > on Jan 2, John's employer pays him for work performed before the ch7 case
>> > filing. Is that money from the paycheck property of the estate?
>> >
>> > My understanding has always been that 541(a)(6) states that the estate
>> > includes proceeds of or from property of the estate. Thus the postpetition
>> > payment for prepetition services meets the "proceeds" definition because
>> > John earned the right to payment prior to filing. The right to payment was
>> > property of the estate and thus the actual payment is property is the
>> > estate, subject to any applicable exemptions.
>> >
>> > Now the EZ Rules for the BK Code Book says on Pg12 of the book: "proceeds
>> > from personal services by an individual debtor are not property of the
>> > estate, even if earned before the petition." Perhaps I am misreading EZ
>> > Rules, but it seems to state the opposite position that John's paycheck in
>> > the above scenario would NOT be property of the estate and I can't imagine
>> > that is correct.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>

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