Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

Kirk - for what it's worth I have filed well over 100 post-BAPCPA conversions in my old jurisdiction, I never filed a new means test and to my recollection they all went through. The code simply doesn't require a new means test. If the original chapter 13 22C showed below median or negative DI, I just filed a statement of intention and added any new creditors. No problem. If the original 22C showed positive DI, I would not convert unless there was a change of circumstances (usually income reduction). In those cases I also amended I and J to show the new circumstances. The UST would usually appear on those latter cases and file a Statement of Presumed Abuse. After I would show the change of circumstance (usually through recent pay advices) they would file a Declination (declining to file the motion to dismiss).
I hope that helps.
>
> 6 months prior to the Petition date of original filing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Michael Avanesian wrote:
>
> > Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.
> >
> > 348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the petition date and not the conversion date.
> >
> > As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's original bankruptcy petition was filed...it is questionable how meaningful an analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR 332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
> >
> > If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me what I need.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Michael Avanesian
> > Law Offices of David A. Tilem
> > www.tilemlaw.com
> > 818-507-6000
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
> >>
> >> What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case has been converted to chapter 7?
> >> Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?
> >> Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kirk Brennan
> >>
> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
> >> TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion letters containing the signature of a director.
> >
> >
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I will usually ask that an updated means test be filed when a case is converted from 13 to 7. I expect that the updated means test would reflect the six months prior to conversion
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, "Link Schrader" wrote:
I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7 trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7 trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or other items.
Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy. I am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.
on converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the means test calculation (Official Form B 22A) with the courtas is required when a case originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible dismissal for abuse under 707
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

While I certainly do not dispute what happened to my friend Nate in his
case, I'd fight that battle again. I use the 6 months prior to conversion.
I've never been challenged. Maybe I've just been lucky, but going back and
using the same numbers that where on B22C when the case was filed a whileback on form B22A after conversion defies all logic and common sense and is
not consistent with Congressional intent even under the abomination that
is BAPCPA. If I were challenged, I would argue it is not required basedon all the cases cited in the Rutter guide stating no B22A is required atconversion and then alternatively argue the 6 months prior to conversion is
the proper time frame. Otherwise the client should just dismiss and refile
a Chapter 7 so the current numbers from the last six full calendar monthscan be used. I'd have to dig out my notes, but my district recollectionwas that at one of our seminar's last year, one of the assistant US
Trustee's, whose name is escaping me, gave us his opinion that it was 6 months prior
to conversion.
About the only good thing I say about debtor's being forced to dismiss
instead of converting to a Chapter 7, if the means test will be that big anissue, is at least that approach would take away the inherent conflict of interest for the debtors' attorneys when they are owed money still and there
is money in the Chapter 13 trustee's hand. With a dismissal we are paid any
outstanding fees due before funds are refunded to the debtor, unlike the
conversion scenario where the money is refunded to the debtor and the lawyer
is out of luck. That way dismissal is best for both debtor and their
lawyer.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
In a message dated 8/11/2013 6:18:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kirkinhermosa@gmail.com writes:
Not the answer I was hoping for. Did the UST throw some case law at you? Willing to share any cites?
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Nathan Berneman
wrote:
Use the 6 months prior to chapter 13 being filed. I had a similar
situation in Los Angeles a few years back and the US Trustee prevailed on this
issue as I had filed the chapter 7 means test with the 6 months prior to
conversion.
Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
On Aug 11, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
@Mark,
And if the order requires one, would you use the 6 month period prior to
the filing of the ch 13? or the 6 month period prior to conversion?
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Jessee wrote:
I suggest you read the conversion order notifying the debtor of the
documents required to be filed. Form B22A is one of them. If there is a court
order requiring the means test be filed, prudence dictates filing one....
Mark Jessee
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Link Schrader wrote:
I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7
trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in good
faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might have
arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file thenew means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7
trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do file
a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended schedules
if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or other items.
Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new
order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period forpreferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing aproof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a dischargecomplaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need to
prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy. Iam not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.
a debtor, upon
converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the means testcalculation (Official Form B 22A) with the courtas is required when a case
originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible
dismissal for abuse under _ 707_

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Not the answer I was hoping for. Did the UST throw some case law at you?
Willing to share any cites?
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Nathan Berneman
wrote:
> **
>
>
> Use the 6 months prior to chapter 13 being filed. I had a similar
> situation in Los Angeles a few years back and the US Trustee prevailed on
> this issue as I had filed the chapter 7 means test with the 6 months prior
> to conversion.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
>
>
>
> @Mark,
> And if the order requires one, would you use the 6 month period prior to
> the filing of the ch 13? or the 6 month period prior to conversion?
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Jessee wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I suggest you read the conversion order notifying the debtor of the
>> documents required to be filed. Form B22A is one of them. If there is a
>> court order requiring the means test be filed, prudence dictates filing
>> one....
>>
>> Mark Jessee
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Link Schrader
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> *I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7
>> trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in
>> good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might
>> have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file
>> the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7
>> trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do
>> file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended
>> schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or
>> other items.*
>> **
>> *Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new
>> order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for
>> preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a
>> proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge
>> complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need
>> to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
>> *
>> **
>> *The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California
>> Bankruptcy. I am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.*
>> **
>> *Means test calculation required?* Courts disagree whether a debtor,
>> upon converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the means test
>> calculation (Official Form B 22A) with the courtas is required when a case
>> originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible
>> dismissal for abuse under 707
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Use the 6 months prior to chapter 13 being filed. I had a similar situation in Los Angeles a few years back and the US Trustee prevailed on this issue as I had filed the chapter 7 means test with the 6 months prior to conversion.
Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
On Aug 11, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
> @Mark,
> And if the order requires one, would you use the 6 month period prior to the filing of the ch 13? or the 6 month period prior to conversion?
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Jessee wrote:
>>
>> I suggest you read the conversion order notifying the debtor of the documents required to be filed. Form B22A is one of them. If there is a court order requiring the means test be filed, prudence dictates filing one....
>>
>> Mark Jessee
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Link Schrader wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7 trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7 trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or other items.
>>>
>>> Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
>>>
>>> The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy. I am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.
>>>
>>> Means test calculation required? Courts disagree whether a debtor, upon converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the rtas is required when a case originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible dismissal for abuse under 253means test applies to Chapter 13 cases converted to Chapter 7; In re Willis (BC WD MO 2009) 408 BR 803, 809810means test applies in cases converted to Chapter 7; In re Kellett (BC D OR 2007) 379 BR 332, 340means test applies in cases converted to Chapter 7 but court can waive the requirement; In re Perfetto (BC D RI 2007) 361 BR 27, 3031court can consider totality of circumstances in determining whether means test is required upon voluntary conversion to Chapter 7; compare In re Fox (BC D NJ 2007) 370 BR 639, 647648means test only applies to cases originally filed under Chapter 7, not to cases converted to Chapter 7; In re Dudley (BC WD VA 2009) 405 BR 790, 799 (same)]
>>>
>>> Best Regard,
>>>
>>> Link Schrader, Attorney
>>>
>>> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>>>
>>> Mail: P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
>>>
>>> Office: 106 W. 4th Street, Suite #308, Santa Ana, CA 92701
>>>
>>> Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
>>>
>>> Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
>>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or intended recipient. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender. Thank you for your cooperation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Nathan Berneman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 6 months prior to the Petition date of original filing.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 11, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Michael Avanesian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.
>>>>>
>>>>> 348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the petition date and not the conversion date.
>>>>>
>>>>> As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's original bankruptcy petition was filed...it is questionable how meaningful an analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR 332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me what I need.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Michael Avanesian
>>>>> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
>>>>> www.tilemlaw.com
>>>>> 818-507-6000
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case has been converted to chapter 7?
>>>>>> Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?
>>>>>> Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kirk Brennan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
>>>>>> TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion letters containing the signature of a director.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Link Schrader, Attorney
>>> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>>> Mail: P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
>>> Office: 106 W. 4th Street, Suite #308, Santa Ana,
>>> CA 92701
>>> Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
>>> San Diego: (619) 952-8342; Fax: (310) 878-4158
>>> www.schrader-law.com
>>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or intended recipient. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender. Thank you for your cooperation.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kirk Brennan
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and c

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

@Mark,
And if the order requires one, would you use the 6 month period prior to
the filing of the ch 13? or the 6 month period prior to conversion?
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Mark Jessee wrote:
> **
>
>
> I suggest you read the conversion order notifying the debtor of the
> documents required to be filed. Form B22A is one of them. If there is a
> court order requiring the means test be filed, prudence dictates filing
> one....
>
> Mark Jessee
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Link Schrader
> wrote:
>
>
>
> *I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7
> trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in
> good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might
> have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file
> the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7
> trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do
> file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended
> schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or
> other items.*
> **
> *Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new
> order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for
> preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a
> proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge
> complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need
> to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
> *
> **
> *The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy.
> I am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.*
> **
> *Means test calculation required?* Courts disagree whether a debtor,
> upon converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the means test> calculation (Official Form B 22A) with the courtas is required when a case
> originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible
> dismissal for abuse under 707
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I suggest you read the conversion order notifying the debtor of the documents required to be filed. Form B22A is one of them. If there is a court order requiring the means test be filed, prudence dictates filing one....
Mark Jessee
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 11, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Link Schrader wrote:
> I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7 trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7 trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or other items.
>
> Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).
>
> The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy. I am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.
>
> Means test calculation required? Courts disagree whether a debtor, upon converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the subjecting the debtor's case to possible dismissal for abuse under 707 ( 5:281 ff.). [In re Chapman (8th Cir. BAP 2011) 447 BR 250, 253re Willis (BC WD MO 2009) 408 BR 803, 809810means test applies in cases converted to Chapter 7; In re Kellett (BC D OR 2007) 379 BR 332, 340means test applies in cases converted to Chapter 7 but court can waive the requirement; In re Perfetto (BC D RI 2007) 361 BR 27, 30ning whether means test is required upon voluntary conversion to Chapter 7; compare In re Fox (BC D NJ 2007) 370 BR 639, 647648means test only applies to cases originally filed under Chapter 7, not to cases converted to Chapter 7; In re Dudley (BC WD VA 2009) 405 BR 790, 799 (same)]
>
> Best Regard,
>
> Link Schrader, Attorney
>
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
>
> Mail: P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
>
> Office: 106 W. 4th Street, Suite #308, Santa Ana, CA 92701
>
> Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
>
> Fax: (310) 878-4158; www.schrader-law.com
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or intended recipient. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender. Thank you for your cooperation.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Nathan Berneman wrote:
>>
>> 6 months prior to the Petition date of original filing.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
>>
>>
>> On Aug 11, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Michael Avanesian wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.
>>>
>>> 348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the petition date and not the conversion date.
>>>
>>> As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's original bankruptcy petition was filed...it is questionable how meaningful an analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR 332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
>>>
>>> If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me what I need.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Michael Avanesian
>>> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
>>> www.tilemlaw.com
>>> 818-507-6000
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case has been converted to chapter 7?
>>>> Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?
>>>> Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kirk Brennan
>>>>
>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
>>>> TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion letters containing the signature of a director.
>
>
> Link Schrader, Attorney
> Law Office of Link W. Schrader
> Mail: P.O. Box 3723, Tustin, CA 92781
> Office: 106 W. 4th Street, Suite #308, Santa Ana,
> CA 92701
> Office: (714) 542-5922; Mobile/Text: (310) 413-6924
> San Diego: (619) 952-8342; Fax: (310) 878-4158
> www.schrader-law.com
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
> This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information which is confidential and may be privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or intended recipient. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender. Thank you for your cooperation.
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

*I normally prepare a new means test calculation in case the chapter 7
trustee wants evidence that conversion from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is in
good faith and not an attempt to evade the presumption of abuse which might
have arisen in a initial chapter 7 filing. However, I normally do not file
the new means test at the time of conversion and do not recall a chapter 7
trustee ever asking for it. At the time of conversion from 13 to 7, I do
file a statement of intent, amended schedules I and J, and amended
schedules if needed to add any post-filing, preconversion creditors, or
other items.*
**
*Conversion does not change the petition date, but does constitute a new
order for relief. There is no change relating to the reachback period for
preferential/fraudulent transfers, but new deadlines are set for filing a
proof of claim, objecting to debtor's exemptions and a filing a discharge
complaint or motion to dismiss for abuse under section 707 (hence the need
to prepare by having evidence ready that the conversion was in good faith).*
**
*The discussion below is from the Rutter Guide on California Bankruptcy. I
am not aware of any precedent in the 9th Circuit.*
**
*Means test calculation required?* Courts disagree whether a debtor, upon
converting from Chapter 13 to Chapter 7, must file the means test
calculation (Official Form B 22A) with the courtas is required when a case
originates under Chapter 7thus subjecting the debtor's case to possible
dismissal for abuse under

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

6 months prior to the Petition date of original filing.
Sent from my iPhone: Nathan Berneman
On Aug 11, 2013, at 1:28 AM, Michael Avanesian wrote:
> Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.
>
> 348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the petition date and not the conversion date.
>
> As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's original bankruptcy petition was filed...it is questionable how meaningful an analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR 332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
>
> If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me what I need.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael Avanesian
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem
> www.tilemlaw.com
> 818-507-6000
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
>>
>> What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case has been converted to chapter 7?
>> Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?
>> Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Kirk Brennan
>>
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Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.
348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the
petition date and not the conversion date.
As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A
in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over
the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's *original
bankruptcy petition was filed*...it is questionable how meaningful an
analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income
information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR
332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to
a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to
what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this
subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me
what I need.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
www.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan wrote:
> **
>
>
> What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case
> has been converted to chapter 7?
> Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?
> Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Kirk Brennan
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the
> exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not
> the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in
> reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error,
> please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this
> message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive
> attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this
> message.
> TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not
> constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not
> be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the
> purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal
> Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion
> letters containing the signature of a director.
>
>
>
Standard disclaimer, I don't practice chapter 13/7 bk.348(b) does not include 707 so the means test should use data as of the petition date and not the conversion date.
As the Court in the only 9th circuit decision I could find said, "Form B22A in a converted case is prepared based on the debtor's income averaged over the six months preceding the month during which the debtor's original bankruptcy petition was filed...it is questionable how meaningful an analysis based on "current monthly income" can be, considering income information that may be more than five years old." In re Kellett, 379 BR 332 - Bankr. Court, D. Oregon 2007 see end of page 339.
If I were you, I'd take the position that the means test does not apply to a conversion from 13 to 7. Maybe someone in NACBA has more insight as to what is best for Debtors. I don't think there are many decisions on this subject in the 9th but it may be that my google scholar is not giving me what I need.
Sincerely, Michael AvanesianLaw Offices of David A. Tilemwww.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Kirk Brennan <kirkinhermosa@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the time period for the Means Test numbers after a chapter 13 case has been converted to chapter 7?Is it when the chapter 13 case was originally filed?Or is it the 6 month period preceding the conversion to chapter 7?
Thanks,-- Kirk BrennanCONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance on this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
TAX ADVICE NOTICE: Tax advice, if any, contained in this e-mail does not constitute a "reliance opinion" as defined in IRS Circular 230 and may not be used to establish reasonable reliance on the opinion of counsel for the purpose of avoiding the penalty imposed by Section 6662A of the Internal Revenue Code. The firm provides reliance opinions only in formal opinion letters containing the signature of a director.

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