Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

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MMmm, you seem to be right about Chapter 11 - very cool, though judges
always state they don't condone 22s.
MMmm, you seem to be right about Chapter 11 - very cool, though judges always state they don't condone 22s.

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Mark and Gio,
You two think that the "and" at the end of 1141(d)(2) should be ignored?
Since both of you disagree I had to take a closer look.
I looked at the technical corrections act of 2010 and no change was made to
the "and".
I also looked at Colliers, 16th edition, 1141.05[4] pg 1141-31.
It says, "If the chapter 11 plan provides for the liquidation of all or
substantially all of the property of the estate ... an *individual*,
partnership or corporation debtor is subject to the limitations of section
727(a)."
Two paragraphs down it also says, "In the case of an individual who does
not continue in a business and whose property is liquidated in a chapter 11
case, the individual is subject to the limitations of section 727(a)."
Finally, on the 4th paragraph it says, "It should be noted that section 727
applies only when substantially all of the debtor's property is
liquidated... If the debtor is reorganizing, the debtor may receive a
discharge ... even if discharge would be denied in liquidation."
We all have our different opinions though and I think that's ok. I don't
know David's position on this issue as this was just something I was
writing while on break. I also don't know the relevant case law on this
topic in our circuit. It may be different here. I've sent the editors of
collier's corrections in the past when they were wrong on the 9th circuit
position, this may be another similar situation.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Giovanni Orantes wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> Over the years, you work out questions and then forget where you got the
> answer from; so, I welcome clarifications, but the ones that preceded this
> answer are incorrect. My recollection is that you can file and get a
> discharge as follows
>
> Between a 7 and a 7, 8 years;
> Between a 7 or 11 and a 7 or 11, 8 years;
> between a 7 or 11 and a 13, 4 years;
> Between a 13 and a 7, 6 years; and,
> Between a 13 and a 13, 2 years.
>
> You can find corroboration in Section 727, subsections (8) and (9); 1328
> (f); and 1141 (but that sends you back to 727)...
>
>
>
Mark and Gio,You two think that the "and" at the end of 1141(d)(2) should be ignored? Since both of you disagree I had to take a closer look.
I looked at the technical corrections act of 2010 and no change was made to the "and".I also looked at Colliers, 16th edition, 1141.05[4] pg 1141-31.
It says, "If the chapter 11 plan provides for the liquidation of all or substantially all of the property of the estate ... an individual, partnership or corporation debtor is subject to the limitations of section 727(a)."
Two paragraphs down it also says, "In the case of an individual who does not continue in a business and whose property is liquidated in a chapter 11 case, the individual is subject to the limitations of section 727(a)."
Finally, on the 4th paragraph it says, "It should be noted that section 727 applies only when substantially all of the debtor's property is liquidated... If the debtor is reorganizing, the debtor may receive a discharge ... even if discharge would be denied in liquidation."
We all have our different opinions though a
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Over the years, you work out questions and then forget where you got the
answer from; so, I welcome clarifications, but the ones that preceded this
answer are incorrect. My recollection is that you can file and get a
discharge as follows
Between a 7 and a 7, 8 years;
Between a 7 or 11 and a 7 or 11, 8 years;
between a 7 or 11 and a 13, 4 years;
Between a 13 and a 7, 6 years; and,
Between a 13 and a 13, 2 years.
You can find corroboration in Section 727, subsections (8) and (9); 1328
(f); and 1141 (but that sends you back to 727)...
Over the years, you work out questions and then forget where you got the answer from; so, I welcome clarifications, but the ones that preceded this answer are incorrect. My recollection is that you can file and get a discharge as follows
Between a 7 and a 7, 8 years;Between a 7 or 11 and a 7 or 11, 8 years;between a 7 or 11 and a 13, 4 years;Between a 13 and a 7, 6 years; and,Between a 13 and a 13, 2 years.
You can find corroboration in Section 727, subsections (8) and (9); 1328 (f); and 1141 (but that sends you back to 727)...

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Three attorneys, three different answers! If you're going to research this
I would check sections 103, 727, 1328, and 1141.
My understanding is if the Chapter 11 is for reorganization purposes, you
can file as often as you need and receive a discharge every time. I am
relying on 1141(3).
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Steven B. Lever wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sofya:****
>
> ** **
>
> Youd have to research that a little, but I think it should be the same as
> a Chapter 13 that can be filed 4 years after a discharge in Chapter 7 and
> still receive a discharge in the next case. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Steven B. Lever ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *s_dav2005@yahoo.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:33 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Chapter 11 after Chapter 7 Discharge****
>
> ** **
>
> ****
>
> Debtor filed a chapter 7 bk in 2008 and received the discharge in 2009. Q:
> how many years does he need to wait before he can file a chapter 11
> bankruptcy and be entitlted to discharge?****
>
> Thanks****
>
> Sofya D. ****
>
> ****
>
>
>
Three attorneys, three different answers! If you're going to research this I would check sections 103, 727, 1328, and 1141.My understanding is if the Chapter 11 is for reorganization purposes, you can file as often as you need and receive a discharge every time. I am relying on 1141(3).
Sincerely, Michael AvanesianOn Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Steven B. Lever <sblever@leverlaw.com> wrote:
Sofya:Youd have to research that a little, but I think it should be the same as a Chapter 13 that can be filed 4 years after a discharge in Chapter 7 and still receive a discharge in the next case.
Steven B. Lever
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of s_dav2005@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:33 PMTo: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa] Chapter 11 after Chapter 7 Discharge
Debtor filed a chapter 7 bk in 2008 and received the discharge in 2009. Q: how many years does he need to wait before he can file a chapter 11 bankruptcy and be entitlted to discharge?
ThanksSofya D.

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Same as for Chapter 7.
Giovanni Orantes, Esq.
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2920
Los Angeles, CA 90010
Tel: (213) 389-4362
Fax: (877) 789-5776
e-mail: go@gobklaw.com
website: www.gobklaw.com
*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
WE ARE A "DEBT RELIEF AGENCY" AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW.
SERVING BAKERSFIELD, LOS ANGELES, ORANGE COUNTY, RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO
AND SANTA BARBARA AND THE WORLD FOR CHAPTER 11 AND 15 CASES.
Note: The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential
information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please immediately notify us by telephone or e-mail and delete the original
e-mail at (213) 389-4362 or (888) 619-8222.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with requirements imposed
by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties
under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or
recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
Same as for Chapter 7.-- Giovanni Orantes, Esq.Certified Bankruptcy Specialist* Orantes Law Firm, P.C.3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2920
Los Angeles, CA 90010Tel: (213) 389-4362Fax: (877) 789-5776e-mail: go@gobklaw.comwebsite: www.gobklaw.com
*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of CertificationWE ARE A "DEBT RELIEF AGENCY" AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW.
SERVING BAKERSFIELD, LOS ANGELES, ORANGE COUNTY, RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO AND SANTA BARBARA AND THE WORLD FOR CHAPTER 11 AND 15 CASES.Note: The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone or e-mail and delete the original e-mail at (213) 389-4362 or (888) 619-8222.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with requirements imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.

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