Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

Good points Gerald, though I still respectfully disagree based on my prior post. One thing is for sure, the 9/15 program is shaping up to be a "must" for all of us, vetrans and newbies alike, I think.
Thank you Professor Hayes, for getting the intellectual juices flowing in advance of this program. I don't recall this much well reasoned debate on a subject BEFORE a program, in our history. We may need to make program related pre-polling on upcoming subjects mandatory:)!
Jeff Smith
>
> Listmates,
>
>
>
> I think a lot of this discussion is missing several important points:
>
>
>
> 1) In my experience, clients in BK often have their head in the
> sand, are completely overwhelmed by the ferocity of some creditors, or
> are incredibly ignorant about their responsibilities.
>
> 2) The requirements of 526(c) impose a due diligence requirement on
> attorneys. Having a current credit report is evidence one has done
> due diligence. Saying, "the client said it was all the debt they had"
> is no excuse when they omit the creditor they defrauded. Sometimes I
> will check the LA court website for $4.75 to see if there are lawsuits
> the client didn't tell me about, although lawsuits are usually what
> precipitates the BK filing.
>
> 3) The BestCase (CIN Legal) reports also alert me to judgment
> liens, tax liens, prior addresses, employers and adjustable loans, all
> things I might not get otherwise.
>
> 4) They give me arguably correct addresses for the creditors, which
> is much more efficient than studying credit card statements for the
> "correspondence address," with no assurance that this is the address
> registered with the National Noticing Center.
>
> 5) After 27 years in law, I no longer believe that clients will
> always tell me everything unless they believe I'll find out anyway. I
> do not want to have to make that evaluation in every case; therefore,
> I always make them pay for the credit report. (Since CIN Legal
> doesn't get me Equifax, I encourage but don't require them to go to
> www.annualcreditreport.com and pull the Equifax report.)
>
> 6) The BestCase reports can be instantly downloaded into the
> schedules, saving a lot of time. Though they must be reviewed and
> corrected, I have had little blowback from incomplete account numbers,
> even though the software automatically redacts those numbers; only
> occasional requests from Ch13 trustees for complete account numbers.
>
>
>
> Gerry
>
>
>
> McNally Bus Card Smaller
>
>
>
> Gerald McNally
>
> McNally & Associates, P.C.
>
> 517 East Wilson Ave., Ste 104
>
> Glendale, CA 91206
>
> 818.507.5100
>
> Fax: 818.507.5001
>
>
>
> Notice to Recipient: This email is meant for only the intended
> recipient of the transmission and may be a communication privileged by
> law. If you received this email in error, and review, use,
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly
> prohibited. Please notify us immediately of the error by return email
> and please delete this message and any and all duplicates of this
> message from your system. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
>
>
>
> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements
> imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S.
> tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments)
> is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
> avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code or (ii) promoting,
> marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter
> addressed herein.
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Listmates,
I think a lot of this discussion is missing several important points:
1) In my experience, clients in BK often have their head in the
sand, are completely overwhelmed by the ferocity of some creditors, or
are incredibly ignorant about their responsibilities.
2) The requirements of 526(c) impose a due diligence requirement on
attorneys. Having a current credit report is evidence one has done
due diligence. Saying, "the client said it was all the debt they had"
is no excuse when they omit the creditor they defrauded. Sometimes I
will check the LA court website for $4.75 to see if there are lawsuits
the client didn't tell me about, although lawsuits are usually what
precipitates the BK filing.
3) The BestCase (CIN Legal) reports also alert me to judgment
liens, tax liens, prior addresses, employers and adjustable loans, all
things I might not get otherwise.
4) They give me arguably correct addresses for the creditors, which
is much more efficient than studying credit card statements for the
"correspondence address," with no assurance that this is the address
registered with the National Noticing Center.
5) After 27 years in law, I no longer believe that clients will
always tell me everything unless they believe I'll find out anyway. I
do not want to have to make that evaluation in every case; therefore,
I always make them pay for the credit report. (Since CIN Legal
doesn't get me Equifax, I encourage but don't require them to go to
www.annualcreditreport.com and pull the Equifax report.)
6) The BestCase reports can be instantly downloaded into the
schedules, saving a lot of time. Though they must be reviewed and
corrected, I have had little blowback from incomplete account numbers,
even though the software automatically redacts those numbers; only
occasional requests from Ch13 trustees for complete account numbers.
Gerry
McNally Bus Card Smaller
Gerald McNally
McNally & Associates, P.C.
517 East Wilson Ave., Ste 104
Glendale, CA 91206
818.507.5100
Fax: 818.507.5001
Notice to Recipient: This email is meant for only the intended
recipient of the transmission and may be a communication privileged by
law. If you received this email in error, and review, use,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly
prohibited. Please notify us immediately of the error by return email
and please delete this message and any and all duplicates of this
message from your system. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements
imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S.
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments)
is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code or (ii) promoting,
marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter
addressed herein.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

only on active accounts, such as on-going bank accounts, mortgage and car loans
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640
Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226
Telephone: (818) 226-1205
Facsimile : (818) 226-1213
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND
CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY
BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND
CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN
AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY
NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW,DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY.
THANK YOU.
________________________________
To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 6:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
I think you are required to redact the account numbers on the schedules.
Catherine Christiansen
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
The fact is that most of us thoroughly interview the clients and go over each
and every statement, collection letter, lawsuit, etc. that the clients have.
Next, I ask them if there are any other liabilities they may no longer have
paperwork for. If that is affirmative, and they have no where else to locate
the information, then I advise them to procure the three (3) reports to
supplement what has already been provided. However, I prefer to list the full
16 digits on credit card accounts, and the full accounts on all others in the
Schedules, and the credit reports usually redact the numbers. So, aside from
perhaps brining up a "forgotten" creditor, in most instances they are not
useful. Occasionally, though, I have had clients with no records at all (e.g.
they were destroyed in a fire), and in those cases, the credit reports, although
imperfect, got the job done.
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640
Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226
Telephone: (818) 226-1205
Facsimile : (818) 226-1213
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND
CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY
BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND
CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN
AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY
NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW,DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY.
THANK YOU.
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 1:04:12 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
I am retired and rarely comment.
When I was practicing, I did exactly the same thing. I rarely relied on
credit reports unless absolutely necessary.
Well said Jeff.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:09 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I
think therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a
very important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit
report is NOT required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre
or the petition. However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may
have changed hands several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one
or more times in the recent past and may not be getting mail at their
current address from the most recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just
unsure about who they may owe money to (when there are large medical bills,
the clients frequently don't know who they recieved various services from,
seems to be a common example) then we reccommend the clients take the time
to get a credit report to supplement the information needed for our
questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably
more accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case
by case. If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure
whats out there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really
rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If
there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the
clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the
petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get
a meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith
Yahoo! Groups Links
only on active accounts, such as on-going bank accounts, mortgage and car loans Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226Telephone: (818) 226-1205Facsimile : (818) 226-1213THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW, DISSEMINATION,
DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.From: Catherine Christiansen <christiansenlaw@yahoo.com>To: "cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com" <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 6:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports


The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I think you are required to redact the account numbers on the schedules.
Catherine Christiansen
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
The fact is that most of us thoroughly interview the clients and go over each and every statement, collection letter, lawsuit, etc. that the clients have. Next, I ask them if there are any other liabilities they may no longer have paperwork for. If that is affirmative, and they have no where else to locate the information, then I advise them to procure the three (3) reports to supplement what has already been provided. However, I prefer to list the full 16 digits on credit card accounts, and the full accounts on all others in the Schedules, and the credit reports usually redact the numbers. So, aside from perhaps brining up a "forgotten" creditor, in most instances they are not useful. Occasionally, though, I have had clients with no records at all (e.g. they were destroyed in a fire), and in those cases, the credit reports, although imperfect, got the job done.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640
Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226
Telephone: (818) 226-1205
Facsimile : (818) 226-1213
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 1:04:12 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
I am retired and rarely comment.
When I was practicing, I did exactly the same thing. I rarely relied on
credit reports unless absolutely necessary.
Well said Jeff.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:09 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I
think therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a
very important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit
report is NOT required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre
or the petition. However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may
have changed hands several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one
or more times in the recent past and may not be getting mail at their
current address from the most recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just
unsure about who they may owe money to (when there are large medical bills,
the clients frequently don't know who they recieved various services from,
seems to be a common example) then we reccommend the clients take the time
to get a credit report to supplement the information needed for our
questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably
more accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case
by case. If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure
whats out there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really
rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If
there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the
clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the
petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get
a meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith
Yahoo! Groups Links

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

The fact is that most of us thoroughly interview the clients and go over each
and every statement, collection letter, lawsuit, etc. that the clients have.
Next, I ask them if there are any other liabilities they may no longer have
paperwork for. If that is affirmative, and they have no where else to locate
the information, then I advise them to procure the three (3) reports to
supplement what has already been provided. However, I prefer to list the full
16 digits on credit card accounts, and the full accounts on all others in the
Schedules, and the credit reports usually redact the numbers. So, aside from
perhaps brining up a "forgotten" creditor, in most instances they are not
useful. Occasionally, though, I have had clients with no records at all (e.g.
they were destroyed in a fire), and in those cases, the credit reports, although
imperfect, got the job done.
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640
Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226
Telephone: (818) 226-1205
Facsimile : (818) 226-1213
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND
CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY
BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND
CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN
AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY
NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW,DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY.
THANK YOU.
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 1:04:12 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
I am retired and rarely comment.
When I was practicing, I did exactly the same thing. I rarely relied on
credit reports unless absolutely necessary.
Well said Jeff.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:09 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I
think therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a
very important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit
report is NOT required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre
or the petition. However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may
have changed hands several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one
or more times in the recent past and may not be getting mail at their
current address from the most recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just
unsure about who they may owe money to (when there are large medical bills,
the clients frequently don't know who they recieved various services from,
seems to be a common example) then we reccommend the clients take the time
to get a credit report to supplement the information needed for our
questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably
more accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case
by case. If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure
whats out there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really
rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If
there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the
clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the
petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get
a meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith
Yahoo! Groups Links
The fact is that most of us thoroughly interview the clients and go over each and every statement, collection letter, lawsuit, etc. that the clients have. Next, I ask them if there are any other liabilities they may no longer have paperwork for. If that is affirmative, and they have no where else to locate the information, then I advise them to procure the three (3) reports to supplement what has already been provided. However, I prefer to list the full 16 digits on credit card accounts, and the full accounts on all others in the Schedules, and the credit reports usually redact the numbers. So, aside from perhaps brining up a "forgotten" creditor, in most instances they are not useful. Occasionally, though, I have had clients with no records at all (e.g.
they were destroyed in a fire), and in those cases, the credit reports, although imperfect, got the job done. Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226Telephone: (818) 226-1205Facsimile : (818) 226-1213THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US
IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.From: Henry Toles <hmt@toles.org>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSent: Sun, September 2, 2012 1:04:12 PMSubject: RE: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports

I am retired and rarely comment.
When I was practicing, I did exactly the same thing. I rarely relied on
credit reports unless absolutely necessary.
Well said Jeff.
t"_blank" href"mailto:cdcbaa%40yahoogroups.com">cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jbsesq1965
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:09 AM
To:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I am retired and rarely comment.
When I was practicing, I did exactly the same thing. I rarely relied on
credit reports unless absolutely necessary.
Well said Jeff.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 10:09 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I
think therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a
very important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit
report is NOT required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre
or the petition. However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may
have changed hands several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one
or more times in the recent past and may not be getting mail at their
current address from the most recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just
unsure about who they may owe money to (when there are large medical bills,
the clients frequently don't know who they recieved various services from,
seems to be a common example) then we reccommend the clients take the time
to get a credit report to supplement the information needed for our
questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably
more accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case
by case. If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure
whats out there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really
rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If
there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the
clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the
petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get
a meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith
Yahoo! Groups Links

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Also agree.
I might add that I like to rely on both the client's information AND the credit report whenever possible. However, lately I've gotten credit reports from clients that are so beyond the usual inaccuracy that it's truly bizarre, e.g. credit reports that show a zero balance or even nothing at all about a delinquent Visa account where the client is showing me the statement showing all the late charges etc.
I don't know why that is - was it not reported, was it reported but never made it onto the report, etc. - but if you relied on it solely, it wouldn't have made it into the BK.
I used to think that of the two, the client's own info or the credit report, that the credit report was the more accurate. Not sure I feel that way anymore.
Todd Mannis
wrote:
>
> Well said Jeff. I agree 100%.
> Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
> LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
> 21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640
> Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226
> Telephone: (818) 226-1205
> Facsimile : (818) 226-1213
>
>
>
>
> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND
> CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY
> BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND
> CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN
> AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY
> NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW,
> DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
> IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY.
> THANK YOU.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 10:09:15 AM
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
>
>
> My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I
> think therefore invites comment:
>
> Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a very
> important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit report is NOT
> required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre or the petition.
> However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may have changed hands
> several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one or more times in the
> recent past and may not be getting mail at their current address from the most
> recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just unsure about who they may owe
> money to (when there are large medical bills, the clients frequently don't know
> who they recieved various services from, seems to be a common example) then we
> reccommend the clients take the time to get a credit report to supplement the
> information needed for our questionairre.
>
>
> For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
> obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably more
> accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case by case.
> If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure whats out
> there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really rare.
>
>
> Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If
> there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the
> clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the> petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
> clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
> could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
>
>
> In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
> decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get a
> meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
>
>
> Jeff Smith
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Well said Jeff. I agree 100%.
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
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Telephone: (818) 226-1205
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________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 2, 2012 10:09:15 AM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: Poll on Credit Reports
My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and Ithink therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a very
important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit report is NOT
required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre or the petition.
However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may have changed hands
several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one or more times in the
recent past and may not be getting mail at their current address from the most
recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just unsure about who they may owe
money to (when there are large medical bills, the clients frequently don't know
who they recieved various services from, seems to be a common example) then we
reccommend the clients take the time to get a credit report to supplement the
information needed for our questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's
obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably more
accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case by case.
If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure whats out
there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. Ifthere isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with theclients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the
petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the
clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I
could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little
decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get a
meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith
Well said Jeff. I agree 100%. Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ21031 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 640Woodland Hills, California 91364-2226Telephone: (818) 226-1205Facsimile : (818) 226-1213THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) NAMED ABOVE. THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION, AND, AS SUCH, IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OR AN AGENT RESPONSIBLE FOR DELIVERING IT TO THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, AND THAT ANY REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS
MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY. THANK YOU.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

My 2 cents on credit reports, which won't be reflected in any "poll", and I think therefore invites comment:
Our questionairre instructs clients that an accurate list of creditors is a very important aspect of the case. It tells the clients that a credit report is NOT required to file bankruptcy or to fill out the questionairre or the petition. However, in circumstances where the debts are old and may have changed hands several times, and/or where the debtor(s) have moved one or more times in the recent past and may not be getting mail at their current address from the most recent collectors, or if the debtor(s) is just unsure about who they may owe money to (when there are large medical bills, the clients frequently don't know who they recieved various services from, seems to be a common example) then we reccommend the clients take the time to get a credit report to supplement the information needed for our questionairre.
For those who say a credit report is REQUIRED as a part of COUNSEL's obligations, I disagree and point out that credit reports are not reliably more accurate than MOST debtor(s)records and personal knowledge. It's case by case. If I sense during consultation that the debtors aren't really sure whats out there, I will demand they get their credit report. That's really rare.
Of course you actually have to meet with the clients to get that sense. If there isn't a sufficiently experienced attorney personally meeting with the clients, then maybe a credit report is a much more necessary part of the petition preparation process. If an attorney IS meeting personally with the clients but has been in the BK game for a relatively short period of time, I could argue that getting the credit report is more important.
In the end, I think a simple yes or no to the poll question is a little decieving. There are way too many moving parts to answer yes or no, and get a meeningful result, for everyone's individual practice.
Jeff Smith

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I agree with Vernon! I do not pull them either, but I require the clientsto pull them. In fact I generally provide them instructions how to do sobefore they even step foot in my office. If the client unable to do so, Iwill help them do it. I maintain it is the client's duty to provide theircreditors to me. My duty is to double check the credit report and bills and
make inquiries to the clients after conducting a common sense analysis ofall information provided to ensure all creditors are listed.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
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In a message dated 8/28/2012 3:49:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
vle@vlelaw.com writes:
I voted! I never pull credit reports either, but I tell clients they can pull their own. I have not found credit reports to be terribly useful formy purposes. They are often inaccurate, dont have all the creditors, and
never have the addresses I want or account numbers. Plus, it does two
things which are detrimental to the case:
1. It makes me responsible for the clients creditor list, not the
client, and
2. It takes away responsibility from the client to make sure the
creditor list is accurate.
It is my opinion that many clients wont really deal with the debt until
they dig through and find out how much and to whom they really owe money. How many of our clients are surprised by how much they really owe? To me,that is part of my process of helping them.
Vernon L. Ellicott, Esq.
Certified Family Law Specialist
California State Bar Board of Legal Specialization
A Bankruptcy and Family Law Firm
Law Offices of Vernon L. Ellicott
100 E. Thousand Oaks Blvd., Suite 147
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-8125
(805) 446-6262 Phone
(661) 222-2922 Phone
(805) 446-6264 Fax
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A bad day on the bike is better than a good day on the golf course.
Link W. Schrader
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:54 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Criticism of Poll on Credit Reports
I intended to answer the poll, but found the question to be phrased in a
way that no answer choice applied. I give my clients a list of items to
obtain and prepare to assist me with preparation of their case. Obtaining all
three credit reports through _www.annualcreditreport.com_
(http://www.annualcreditreport.com/) is on the list. However, if the client has
difficulty pulling their report, then I have them come in and we pull the report
together or I pull the report for them while they are on the phone.
Therefore, it is not true that I always pull the report does. I do not usually pull the report, the client usually does.
Only if it appears necessary is misleading, because I believe it is almost
always necessary to have the credit report and the answer seems to apply the
opposite. Never is wrong as explained above.
Therefore, I did not take the poll, but would gladly do so if some time
was spend on developing a better question and answer choices.
Link Schrader, Attorney
Law Office of Link W. Schrader
_[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]_ (mailto:[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]) On Behalf
Of Dennis McGoldrick
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:37 PM
To: _cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Poll on Credit Reports
OK, if we are taking a poll, this could be discovered, and could become
evidence in a case regarding malpractice for not obtaining a credit reportprefiling.
SO IT IS IMPORTANT WE GET A GOOD SAMPLING. Please go to our yahoo group,cdcbaa, click on polls, and vote.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.