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I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:36 pm
by Yahoo Bot

Thank you for your "two cents" Nancy which is vastly more valuable than
that.
In my particular case the Chapter 13 could always have filed a 7, so I
kept it the same as the prepetition. I just changed I and J to the last
6 months. I'm hoping that will work.
Steve

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I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:20 am
by Yahoo Bot

I realize I am adding my two cents late to this discussion but I agree
with Jim that you should file a new means test as of the conversion
date. I would add that when you do amend the means test you should add
an attachment explaining the change in circumstances and you may want to
subtract the decrease in income under Special Circumstances. CDCBAA has
done many seminars with the OUST and that is what they advise attorneys
to do.
Thank you,
Nancy B. Clark
100 N. Barranca Ave, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
Tele: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
www.blclaw.com

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I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:31 am
by Yahoo Bot

Perhaps, but even then, most debtors will need to rely on some "special
circumstances" that occurred in the past six months, since the job loss or
whatever likely happened recently.
I think this gives more power to the OUST and court than Congress intended,
and would fight this battle with the right facts.
Hale
________________________________

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I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:54 am
by Yahoo Bot

While i agree with Hale, it's not just the chap 7 trustees maintaining the need to file a new B22a at conversion, the post conversion orders if some judges require they be filed. Judge Riblet for instance includes this requirement.
If a new b22a is required I am inclined to file based on the last 6 months, because it is usually more beneficial to the debtor.
Mark Jessee
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:54 AM, "Hale Andrew Antico" wrote:
> Some Chapter 7 trustees insist on an amended B22. I've written nice letters disputing the need to do this, citing 11 USC 101 10A(A) "the commencement of the case." I know of no ninth circuit authority that interprets a conversion as commencing a new case. We should pick our test case carefully. Hale
>
Christine Wilton
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:12 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7
>
>
> The Means Test is determined at the time of filing.
>
> Generally, you would file a "post petition change to Income," to demonstrate the changed circumstances that warrant a conversion from 13 to 7. You don't change the means test.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Steven B. Lever wrote:
>
> Ive done a few 13s to 7s before, but I cannot say as Ive formulated a well-considered policy on how to present income in the converted Chapter 7 case.
>
>
>
> I think the Means Test remains the same prepetition period for both chaptersthe CMI 6 months prior to the month of filingase (or some other software) from a 22C to a 22A. You lose the retirement deduction, but if you pass, all is good.
>
>
>
> Schedule I can be the same period, or a more recent period, so long as you disclose the basis in the comment section. The last sentence at the top of the form reads: The average monthly income calculated on this form may differ from the current monthly income calculated on Form 22A, 22B or 22C. However, it doesnt say how it should differ.
>
>
>
> So my question is, how do you do it on the 22A and Schedule I is the same whether from 13 to 7, 7 to 13, or even if an 11 is in the mix).
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> >
>
> > Steven B. Lever
>
> >( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>
> >( Fax (562) 485-6886
>
> >* sblever@leverlaw.com
>
> > www.leverlaw.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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While i agree with Hale, it's not just the chap 7 trustees maintaining the need to file a new B22a at conversion, the post conversion orders if some judges require they be filed. Judge Riblet for instance includes this requirement.If a new b22a is required I am inclined to file based on the last 6 months, because it is usually more beneficial to the debtor. Mark JesseeSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 24, 2012, at 8:54 AM, "Hale Andrew Antico" <bk.lawyer@gmail.com> wrote:

Some Chapter 7 trustees insist on an amended B22. I've written
nice letters disputing the need to do this, citing 11 USC 101 10A(A) "the
commencement of the case." I know of no ninth circuit authority that interprets
a conversion as commencing a new case. We should pick our test case
carefully. Hale
From: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine
WiltonSent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:12 PMTo:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] I and J and Means Test
Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

The Means Test is determined at the time of filing. Generally,
you would file a "post petition change to Income," to demonstrate the changed
circumstances that warrant a conversion from 13 to 7. You don't change the
means test.Hope this helps.
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Steven B. Lever <
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:54 am
by Yahoo Bot

Some Chapter 7 trustees insist on an amended B22. I've written nice letters
disputing the need to do this, citing 11 USC 101 10A(A) "the commencement of
the case." I know of no ninth circuit authority that interprets a conversion
as commencing a new case. We should pick our test case carefully. Hale
_____

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I and J and Means Test Time Applicable Time Periods When Converting from 13 to 7

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:02 pm
by Yahoo Bot

I've done a few 13s to 7s before, but I cannot say as I've formulated a
well-considered policy on how to present income in the converted Chapter
7 case.
I think the "Means Test" remains the same prepetition period for both
chapters-the CMI 6 months prior to the month of filing-and so it's just
a matter of flipping the switch in Best Case (or some other software)
from a 22C to a 22A. You lose the retirement deduction, but if you
pass, all is good.
Schedule "I" can be the same period, or a more recent period, so long as
you disclose the basis in the comment section. The last sentence at the
top of the form reads: "The average monthly income calculated on this
form may differ from the current monthly income calculated on Form 22A,
22B or 22C." However, it doesn't say how it should differ.
So my question is, how do you do it on the 22A and Schedule "I" when
converting from one chapter to another ????(I suppose the issue is the
same whether from 13 to 7, 7 to 13, or even if an 11 is in the mix).
Steve
Law Offices of Steven B. Lever
>
> Steven B. Lever
>( Tel. (562) 436-5456 ext. 1
>( Fax (562) 485-6886
>* sblever@leverlaw.com
> www.leverlaw.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.