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[CAMFFG] Title is in 2 names, mortgage is in 1 name. Non-liable
Philip,
Could you expand on your point below:
"My guess is that it won't work without the non-filing co-tenant deeding
their interest to the filing co-tenant. Otherwise, the filing co-tenant
would be able to cramdown to the value of their interest which is half the
FMV of the property. That would be too much superpower even for a C11.
(think what would happen if there were 20 co-tenants?! - cramdown to 1/20th
of the FMV - no way)."
How would it help if the *nonfiling, liable cotenant* deeds his half of the
property to the *filing, nonliable cotenant*? In that situation, what
gives the bankruptcy court the right to bind with a chapter 11 plan a
creditor who never signed up to deal with the* filing, nonliable cotenant*?
Does that creditor even have a claim in the case of the *filing, nonliable
cotenant*? There is no right to payment from the *filing, nonliable
cotenant*. There is only the right to take the collateral if the
obligation of the *nonfiling, liable cotenant *is breached.
Alik
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 5:11 PM, PHiLiP KOeBeL wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> to be clearer, nothing can happen without getting relief from stay in A's
> case (non-liable cotenant) since the automatic stay applies to all property
> of the bankruptcy estate.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 4:45 PM, PHiLiP KOeBeL wrote:
>
>>
>> alik - please post any useful responses you get off the other listserves
>> ok?
>>
>> the answer is simple when they are married and this is California a
>> community property state. they are co-debtors if they were married at the
>> time of the mortgages. i think a C11 cramdown will work if they file
>> jointly (maybe even if they file separately), but i have never done it.
>>
>> maybe Giovanni knows the answer if they were not married, but my guess is
>> that it won't work without the non-filing co-tenant deeding their interest
>> to the filing co-tenant.
>>
>> otherwise, the filing co-tenant would be able to cramdown to the value of
>> their interest which is half the FMV of the property.
>>
>> that would be too much superpower even for a C11. (think what would
>> happen if there were 20 co-tenants?! - cramdown to 1/20th of the FMV - no
>> way).
>>
>> i expect somehow that the banks believed that the person who executed the
>> mortgages was to be the only person on title...
>>
>> or maybe the banks just blew it. you'd have to check the escrow documents
>> to know for sure...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Alik Segal wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> Mates:
>>>
>>> This issue probably comes up periodically, but I am not sure how to
>>> phrase the query. Help me brainstorm this.
>>>
>>> 1. A and B purchased a rental house together and took title as
>>> 50/50 cotenants. The purchase was financed with 2 mortgages signed solely
>>> by B (liable cotenant). A (non-liable cotenant) files chapter 11.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Can A (non-liable cotenant) strip a junior mortgage? Can A
>>> (non-liable cotenant) cram down on a senior mortgage? In other
>>> words, is privity of contract necessary to strip or cram down on a lien?
>>>
>>> 2. Is B (liable cotenant) still liable on the crammed down and
>>> stripped mortgages?
>>> 3. Is there any theory under which B (liable cotenant) can be
>>> protected with a something like a codebtors stay? B is not a
>>> codebtor, because he is the only one liable on the mortgages.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alik Segal
>>> Alik.Segal@gmail.com
>>> 310-362-6157
>>> California Central District
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Alik Segal
Alik.Segal@gmail.com
310-362-6157
California Central District
Philip,Could you expand on your point below:"My guess is that it won't work without the non-filing co-tenant deeding their interest to the filing co-tenant.Otherwise, the filing co-tenant would be able to cramdown to the value of their interest which is half the FMV of the property.That would be too much superpower even for a C11. (think what would happen if there were 20 co-tenants?! - cramdown to 1/20th of the FMV - no way)."
How would it help if the nonfiling, liable cotenant deeds his half of the property to the filing, nonliable cotenant? In that situation, what gives the bankruptcy court the right to bind with a chapter 11 plan a creditor who never signed up to deal with the filing, nonliable cotenant?
Does that creditor even have a claim in the case of the filing, nonliable cotenant? There is no right to payment from the filing, nonliable cotenant. There is only the right to take the collateral if the obligation of the nonfiling, liable cotenant is breached.
AlikOn Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 5:11 PM, PHiLiP KOeBeL <pkoebel@gmail.com> wrote:
to be clearer, nothing can happen without getting relief from stay in A's case (non-liable cotenant) since the automatic stay applies to all property of the bankruptcy estate.
On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 4:45 PM, PHiLiP KOeBeL < wrote:
alik - please post any useful responses you get off the other listserves ok?the answer is simple when they are married and this is California a community property state. they are co-debtors if they were married at the time of the mortgages. i think a C11 cramdown will work if they file jointly (maybe even if they file separately), but i have never done it.
maybe Giovanni knows the answer if they were not married, but my guess is that it won't work without the non-filing co-tenant deeding their interest to the filing co-tenant. otherwise, the filing co-tenant would be able to cramdown to the value of their interest which is half the FMV of the property.
that would be too much superpower even for a C11. (think what would happen if there were 20 co-tenants?! - cramdown to 1/20th of the FMV - no way).i expect somehow that the banks believed that the person who executed the mortgages was to be the only person on title...
or maybe the banks just blew it. you'd have to check the escrow documents to know for sure...On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Alik Segal <listserv.inbox@gmail.com> wrote:
Mates:This issue probably comes up periodically, but I am not sure how to phrase the query. Help me brainstorm thi
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