Maybe I misunderstood the facts but I am under the impression the lien is
stripped off and not enforceable against the person or the property. If
there is an in rem claim against the property then it must be paid upon the
sale of the property.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
www.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:15 AM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.'
law@3yl.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> The action is against the property, not against the person!
>
> The Debtor is discharged, not the property.
>
>
> Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
> Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
> 818-347-5800
>
> NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice
> for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email.
>
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential,
> and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
> review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto)
> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original
> and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
>
> Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
>
> Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a
> written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the
> Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been
> paid.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Date:07/11/2014 9:12 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: How to clear a judgment?
>
>
>
> I'll give bk reasons and state reasons for why I think the creditor is
> doing a lot wrong. First, by keeping the lien in place, the creditor is
> continuing to enforce his prepetition claim. I think that's the bk
> violation. I don't understand how a lien like this is not an attempt to
> collect prepetition debt. In particular where there is an affirmative duty
> (maybe after demand) to remove the lien. I did not look at case law so
> maybe it's been interpreted differently.
>
> State law - all code sections are CCCP.
>
> 695.210. The amount required to satisfy a money judgment is the
> total amount of the judgment as entered or renewed with the following
> additions and subtractions:
> ...
> (d) The subtraction of the amount of any portion of the judgment
> that is no longer enforceable.
>
> So under my analysis, *the amount required to satisfy this judgment is
> $0.00*.
>
> 724.010. (a) A money judgment may be satisfied by payment of the
> full amount required to satisfy the judgment or ...
>
> 724.040. If an abstract of a money judgment has been recorded with
> the recorder of any county and the judgment is satisfied, the
> judgment creditor shall immediately do both of the following:
> (a) File an acknowledgment of satisfaction of judgment with the
> court.
> (b) Serve an acknowledgment of satisfaction of judgment on the
> judgment debtor. Service shall be made personally or by mail.
>
> 724.050. allows for a demand to remove the lien
>
> 724.070. actual "damages" if lender asks debtor to do more things
>
> 724.080. In an action or proceeding maintained pursuant to this
> chapter, the court shall award reasonable attorney's fees to the
> prevailing party.
>
> 724.090. The damages recoverable pursuant to this chapter are not
> in derogation of any other damages or penalties to which an aggrieved
> person may be entitled by law. (You can double dip using bk law?)
>
> I think there is a way for the Debtor to do it all himself (697.400) but
> I think the burden should be on the creditor.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael Avanesian
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Mark Jessee
jesseelaw@aol.com
> [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The creditor hasn't done anything wrong. There's no discharge injunction
>> violation! The judgment was not satisfied so the creditor has no obligation
>> to issue an acknowledgment of satisfaction of judgment. The debt was
>> simply discharged making the judgment legally unenforceable. The
>> discharged judgment creditor has no duty to do anything else and expend
>> good money after bad.
>>
>> Apparently the lien was properly avoided and order recorded so the
>> problem is a prospective lender that simply doesn't understand the impact
>> of a bankruptcy discharge making the state court judgment unenforceable.
>>
>> Mark Jessee
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 10:38 PM, "Michael Avanesian
michael@avanesianlaw.com
>> [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand this: "The creditor can't be bothered to do a thing
>> right now so asking them to sign an acknowledgment of satisfaction would
>> likely be a waste of time."
>>
>> I thought these types of issues were good for debtor's attorney because
>> I think the creditor's action is a violation of the discharge injunction. I
>> would build up some evidence, warn them, plead with them to do the right
>> thing. Then file OSC why creditor should not be held in contempt of
>> court. Consider OST if it's time sensitive. I am not in this particular
>> line of work so there may be something I am missing about why this route is
>> not good. I am fairly confident you can ask for attorney fees/costs and
>> maybe punitive damages under the court's 105 power similar to 362(k) type
>> violations.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Michael Avanesian
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 7:17 PM,
jesseelaw@aol.com [cdcbaa] >
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the lender does not understand a bankruptcy discharge's impact
>>> on judgment and you cannot educate them or speak with lender's legal
>>> department (assuming it has one), it is time for your client to find a new
>>> lender.... As the saying goes: "You can't fix stupid!"
>>>
>>> Mark T. Jessee
>>> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>>> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>>> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>>> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>>> (805) 497-5868 (805) 497-5864 (Facsimile)
>>>
>>> NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED
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>>> PLEASE DELETE THIS MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR
>>> COOPERATION.
>>>
>>> In a message dated 7/10/2014 7:03:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>>
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, everyone.
>>>
>>> The problem actually isn't with the title company or the lien. The order
>>> had the APN and property information. (However, I do appreciate the advice
>>> and discussion.) The problem right now is with the lender and the civil
>>> judgment. They see that she has a judgment against her and won't accept the
>>> discharge. I took Stella's advice and just filed a notice of discharge with
>>> the superior courts and hoping that will do the trick. The creditor can't
>>> be bothered to do a thing right now so asking them to sign an
>>> acknowledgment of satisfaction would likely be a waste of time.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>;
>>> *To: *;
>>> *Subject: *RE: [cdcbaa] Re: How to clear a judgment?
>>> *Sent: *Wed, Jul 9, 2014 4:54:26 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a former title company underwriter, I can tell you that Pat is
>>> exactly right. I cant tell you how many times I picked up the phone and
>>> heard about a scenario just like this and then to be told that I was being
>>> unreasonable, etc. Any underwriter worth his or her salt will have a clear
>>> idea of what is needed to move the transaction forward. Sometimes it is
>>> the paperwork that already exists.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Call the person with authority to fix it, and that is never the realtor
>>> selling the property. In a worse case scenario, MOVE THE TITLE to a
>>> friendlier title company. All title companies are NOT the same. I have
>>> moved title and gotten the transaction closed quickly. And sometimes just
>>> threatening to move the title work gets it done.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>>>
>>> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>>>
>>> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>>>
>>> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>>>
>>>
causeylaw@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 714-375-6663
>>>
>>> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
>>> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
>>> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
>>> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>>>
>>> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
>>> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
>>> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC >>> 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
>>> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
>>> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
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>>>
>>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:44 AM
>>> *To:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>>> *Subject:* RE: [cdcbaa] Re: How to clear a judgment?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Following up on Sams and Jims comments, the key here is the title
>>> insurer. Whenever you hear escrow needs/requires think title company.
>>> Every real estate transaction, whether it be a refi or a sale, has a title
>>> insurance company involved who says what they require to clear title to the
>>> point where they will insure it. (They will actually insure it with liens,
>>> etc,,but the policy will state that the title is subject to those liens and
>>> people do not want to buy encumbered property.) For a sale there is a
>>> lenders policy and a buyers policy; for a refi there is only a lenders
>>> policy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When these issues come up and there are any complications or
>>> uncertainties, ask escrow who the title company is, the *title order
>>> number* and the name and contact info for the *title officer * (if they
>>> dont know the title officer assigned, the order number will get you to the
>>> right title officer). Contact the title officer, explain why you think
>>> there is no lien and ask them to tell you exactly what they need. Then
>>> send a confirming email. They will tell you what needs to be recorded. If
>>> they say they need a court order, ask what language they need in the
>>> order, I then write the language and send it to the title officer for
>>> approval. Sometimes you may need to go to the next level, which is the
>>> title attorney.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick T. Green
>>>
>>> Attorney at Law
>>>
>>> Fitzgerald & Green
>>>
>>> 1010 E. Union St. Ste. 206
>>>
>>> Pasadena, CA 91106
>>>
>>> Tel: 626-449-8433
>>>
>>> Fax: 626-449-0565
>>>
>>>
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:23 PM
>>> *To:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>>> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Re: How to clear a judgment?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess it goes without saying that the motion and/or order should
>>> include the recording information from the judgment lien that was avoided.
>>> The title company handling the close should record the order avoiding lien
>>> (and if necessary a copy of the motion) and issue a lender's policy of
>>> title insurance (without excepting the judgment lien) based on your motion
>>> and order. Once the title company is willing to insure title, the lender
>>> should have no argument.
>>>
>>> Sam Benevento
>>> South Bay Bankruptcy Attorney
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Maybe I misunderstood the facts but I am under the impression the lien is stripped off and not enforceable against the person or the property. If there is an in rem claim against the property then it must be paid upon the sale of the property.
Sincerely, Michael AvanesianLaw Offices of David A. Tilemwww.tilemlaw.com
818-507-6000
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:15 AM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.'
law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] <
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
The action is against the property, not against the person!The Debtor is discharged, not the property.Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
Leventhal Law Group, P.C.818-347-5800NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been paid.
-------- Original message --------
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