Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

I stand corrected. Thanks.
Clifford Bordeaux
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Bordeaux Law, P.C.
3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90010
T: 323-762-5529
F: 626-628-1820
E: cliff@bordeauxlaw.com
WEB: www.bordeauxlaw.com
*By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Giovanni Orantes go@gobklaw.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> Indeed. There is case law on this and I have successfully litigated it.
> Does the potential client have a mortgage, though? I find the mortgage
> often overwhelms the non-consumer debt.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Jim Selth jim@wsrlaw.net [cdcbaa] cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Clifford:
>>
>>
>>
>> The UST cannot bring a Motion under 707(b) for dismissal of the case as
>> abusive if the debts are not primarily consumer debts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> James R. Selth
>> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
>> Weintraub & Selth, APC
>> 11766 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1170
>> Los Angeles, California 90025
>> Telephone: (310) 207-1494
>> Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
>> E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net
>>
>> *Certified by State Bar of California as Certified Legal Specialist in
>> Bankruptcy Law
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:37 PM
>> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Is it business debt or is it consumer debt?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If the debt was not "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal,
>> family, or household purpose," then it is not "consumer debt" per Section
>> 101(8). If debtor will make the required certification, and is prepared to
>> provide documentation upon request to demonstrate that the debt was not
>> incurred for persona, family, or household purposes, then it seems to me
>> that he would be exempt from filing a means test.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, UST could still take the position that the case is abusive under
>> 707(b)(3) if debtor has the ability to repay debts in Ch 13.
>>
>>
>> Clifford Bordeaux
>> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
>>
>> Bordeaux Law, P.C.
>>
>> 3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600
>> Los Angeles, CA 90010
>>
>> T: 323-762-5529
>>
>> F: 626-628-1820
>>
>> E: cliff@bordeauxlaw.com
>>
>> WEB: www.bordeauxlaw.com
>>
>> *By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 2:29 PM, 'Desiree Causey' causeylaw@gmail.com
>> [cdcbaa] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a PC who has about $80K in outstanding judgments on 2 or 3 credit
>> cards. He swears all the charges were for improvements and mortgage
>> payments from his investment properties that have since been for foreclosed
>> on. Assuming he really does have this paper trail, and he has above median
>> income and does not otherwise qualify for a Chapter 7, cant I file his
>> Chapter 7 as business debt?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>>
>> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>>
>> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>>
>> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>>
>> causeylaw@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 714-375-6663
>>
>> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>>
>>
>>
>> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
>> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
>> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
>> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>>
>> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
>> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
>> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC >> 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
>> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
>> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
>> the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
>> distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error
>> is strictly prohibited.
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Giovanni Orantes, Esq.*
> Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
> 3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2920
> Los Angeles, CA 90010
> Tel: (213) 389-4362
> Fax: (877) 789-5776
> e-mail: go@gobklaw.com
> website: www.gobklaw.com
>
> *Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> Certification
> *Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of
> Certification
> Commercial Litigation
> Estate Planning
> Outside General Counsel
>
> WE ARE A "DEBT RELIEF AGENCY" AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW.
>
> SERVING BAKERSFIELD, LOS ANGELES, ORANGE COUNTY, RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO
> AND SANTA BARBARA AND THE WORLD FOR CHAPTER 11 AND 15 CASES.
>
> Note: The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential
> information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If
> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
> responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication
> is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> please immediately notify us by telephone or e-mail and delete the original
> e-mail at (213) 389-4362 or (888) 619-8222.
>
> IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with requirements imposed
> by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
> contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
> to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties
> under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or
> recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
>
>
>
I stand corrected. Thanks.Clifford BordeauxCertified Bankruptcy Specialist*Bordeaux Law, P.C.3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90010T: 323-762-5529F: 626-628-1820 E: cliff@bordeauxlaw.comWEB: www.bordeauxlaw.com
*By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:08 AM, Giovanni Orantes go@gobklaw.com [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Indeed. There is case law on this and I have successfully litigated it. Does the potential client have a mortgage, though? I find the mortgage often overwhelms the non-consumer debt.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Jim Selth jim@wsrlaw.net [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Clifford:
The UST cannot bring a Motion under 707(b) for dismissal of the case as abusive if the debts are not primarily consumer debts.
JimJames R. Selth
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*Weintraub & Selth, APC11766 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1170Los Angeles, California 90025Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660E-Mail: p://jim@wsrlaw.net" target"_blank">jim@wsrlaw.net*Certified by State Bar of California as Certified Legal Specialist in Bankruptcy Law

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Indeed. There is case law on this and I have successfully litigated it.
Does the potential client have a mortgage, though? I find the mortgage
often overwhelms the non-consumer debt.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Jim Selth jim@wsrlaw.net [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> Clifford:
>
>
>
> The UST cannot bring a Motion under 707(b) for dismissal of the case as
> abusive if the debts are not primarily consumer debts.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> James R. Selth
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
> Weintraub & Selth, APC
> 11766 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1170
> Los Angeles, California 90025
> Telephone: (310) 207-1494
> Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
> E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net
>
> *Certified by State Bar of California as Certified Legal Specialist in
> Bankruptcy Law
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:37 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Is it business debt or is it consumer debt?
>
>
>
>
>
> If the debt was not "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal,
> family, or household purpose," then it is not "consumer debt" per Section
> 101(8). If debtor will make the required certification, and is prepared to
> provide documentation upon request to demonstrate that the debt was not
> incurred for persona, family, or household purposes, then it seems to me
> that he would be exempt from filing a means test.
>
>
>
> However, UST could still take the position that the case is abusive under
> 707(b)(3) if debtor has the ability to repay debts in Ch 13.
>
>
> Clifford Bordeaux
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
>
> Bordeaux Law, P.C.
>
> 3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600
> Los Angeles, CA 90010
>
> T: 323-762-5529
>
> F: 626-628-1820
>
> E: cliff@bordeauxlaw.com
>
> WEB: www.bordeauxlaw.com
>
> *By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 2:29 PM, 'Desiree Causey' causeylaw@gmail.com
> [cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
>
> I have a PC who has about $80K in outstanding judgments on 2 or 3 credit
> cards. He swears all the charges were for improvements and mortgage
> payments from his investment properties that have since been for foreclosed
> on. Assuming he really does have this paper trail, and he has above median
> income and does not otherwise qualify for a Chapter 7, cant I file his
> Chapter 7 as business debt?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
> causeylaw@gmail.com
>
>
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
>
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC > 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error
> is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Giovanni Orantes, Esq.*
Orantes Law Firm, P.C.
3435 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 2920
Los Angeles, CA 90010
Tel: (213) 389-4362
Fax: (877) 789-5776
e-mail: go@gobklaw.com
website: www.gobklaw.com
*Board Certified - Business Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
*Board Certified - Consumer Bankruptcy Law - American Board of Certification
Commercial Litigation
Estate Planning
Outside General Counsel
WE ARE A "DEBT RELIEF AGENCY" AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW.
SERVING BAKERSFIELD, LOS ANGELES, ORANGE COUNTY, RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO
AND SANTA BARBARA AND THE WORLD FOR CHAPTER 11 AND 15 CASES.
Note: The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential
information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please immediately notify us by telephone or e-mail and delete the original
e-mail at (213) 389-4362 or (888) 619-8222.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with requirements imposed
by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended
to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties
under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing, or
recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
Indeed. There is case law on this and I have successfully litigated it. Does the potential client have a mortgage, though? I find the mortgage often overwhelms the non-consumer debt.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Jim Selth jim@wsrlaw.net [cdcbaa]
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

If the debt was not "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal,
family, or household purpose," then it is not "consumer debt" per Section
101(8). If debtor will make the required certification, and is prepared to
provide documentation upon request to demonstrate that the debt was not
incurred for persona, family, or household purposes, then it seems to me
that he would be exempt from filing a means test.
However, UST could still take the position that the case is abusive under
707(b)(3) if debtor has the ability to repay debts in Ch 13.
Clifford Bordeaux
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Bordeaux Law, P.C.
3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90010
T: 323-762-5529
F: 626-628-1820
E: cliff@bordeauxlaw.com
WEB: www.bordeauxlaw.com
*By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 2:29 PM, 'Desiree Causey' causeylaw@gmail.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> I have a PC who has about $80K in outstanding judgments on 2 or 3 credit
> cards. He swears all the charges were for improvements and mortgage
> payments from his investment properties that have since been for foreclosed
> on. Assuming he really does have this paper trail, and he has above median
> income and does not otherwise qualify for a Chapter 7, cant I file his
> Chapter 7 as business debt?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Desiree Causey, Esq.
>
> Law Office of Desiree Causey
>
> 17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
>
> Huntington Beach, CA 92647
>
> causeylaw@gmail.com
>
>
>
> 714-375-6663
>
> 714-908-7646 (fax)
>
>
>
> Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
> thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
> recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
>
> Privileged And Confidential Communication.
> This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
> protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC > 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
> above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error
> is strictly prohibited.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
>
>
>
If the debt was not "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal, family, or household purpose," then it is not "consumer debt" per Section 101(8). If debtor will make the required certification, and is prepared to provide documentation upon request to demonstrate that the debt was not incurred for persona, family, or household purposes, then it seems to me that he would be exempt from filing a means test.
However, UST could still take the position that the case is abusive under 707(b)(3) if debtor has the ability to repay debts in Ch 13.
Clifford BordeauxCertified Bankruptcy Specialist*Bordeaux Law, P.C.3731 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600Los Angeles, CA 90010T: deauxlaw.com
WEB: :rgb(74,68,42);font-family:Calibri">*By State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 2:29 PM, 'Desiree Causey' causeylaw@gmail.com [cdcbaa] <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I have a PC who has about $80K in outstanding judgments on 2 or 3 credit cards. He swears all the charges were for improvements and mortgage payments from his investment properties that have since been for foreclosed on. Assuming he really does have this paper trail, and he has above median income and does not otherwise qualify for a Chapter 7, cant I file his Chapter 7 as business debt?
tyle"color:#1f497d">
Desiree Causey, Esq.Law Office of Desiree Causey17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Reply-To: "Desiree Causey"
X-Original-Return-Path: "Desiree Causey"
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
I have a PC who has about $80K in outstanding judgments on 2 or 3 credit
cards. He swears all the charges were for improvements and mortgage
payments from his investment properties that have since been for foreclosed
on. Assuming he really does have this paper trail, and he has above median
income and does not otherwise qualify for a Chapter 7, cant I file his
Chapter 7 as business debt?
Desiree Causey, Esq.
Law Office of Desiree Causey
17011 Beach Blvd., Suite 900
Huntington Beach, CA 92647
causeylaw@gmail.com
714-375-6663
714-908-7646 (fax)
Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (and any attachments
thereto) was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the
recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under
the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions.
Privileged And Confidential Communication.
This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are
protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (18 USC
2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named
above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify
the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is
strictly prohibited.
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.