Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

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you are right. i was focusing on terminating the estate's interest and not
sufficiently focused on the debtor's residual interest.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:12 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: HOA Dues After Trustee holds Property for 18 Months
then Abandons
David:
How does abandonment change anything? The debtor still has an equitable or
legal interest in the property so the HOA dues continue to accrue post
petition per 523(a)(16). I think the liability doesn't end until the
forclosure or the debtor does a deed in leiu. I even thought of tendering
and recording a deed to the trustee as soon as he indicates interest in
administering the asset. It still doesn't work! The DEBTOR is liable for the
HOA dues as long as the Debtor OR the Trustee has an interest in the
property, so the transfer to the trustee changes nothing.
Since by far most HOAs arent pursuing this, I am just as happy to keep my
mouth shut, but at least some HOAs are getting decent representation and
pursuing these things, my client's case in point.
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
www.expertbk.com
**Certified By The State Bar
Of California As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
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Message
you are right. i was
focusing on terminating the estate's interest and not sufficiently focused on
the debtor's residual interest.


David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

file a prompt motion to compel abandonment.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Catherine Christiansen
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:03 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] HOA Dues After Trustee holds Property for 18 Months
then Abandons
So how do we protect our client who surrendered the property on the
Statement of Intentions and moved out from HOA's later sueing them?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
1077 E Pacific Coast Hwy #210
Seal Beach, CA, 90740
Tel: (562) 361-8721
Fax: (562) 490-8572
attorneychristianse n@gmail.com
This e-mail is private and confidential and is intended solely for
therecipient(s) named or otherwise identified herein. If you are notnamed
or otherwise identified as an intended recipient, please deletethis e-mail
message and any copies thereof and immediately notify theLaw Offices of
Catherine Christiansen by e-mail or by telephone (562)608-8368.

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LOL, well who said the golddigger wants him to be around. It's the money
they are after....... The more time he spends at work, the more time the
golddigger has to do ..... whatever....
What I don't know is whether the $1.09 limit is an overall limit or just a
limit on what is in the estate. That statute needs to be checked carefully
and perhaps shepardized.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:05 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: HOA Dues After Trustee holds Property for 18 Months
then Abandons
First, my doctor is single. I don't know, nor do I care about his
preferences in the bedroom.
Dennis: I didn't do an exhaustive check of his records, but I ABSOLUTELY
asked him if he has been putting money in and taking money out of his
"retirement" accounts as if they were just savings. He swears that the has
NEVER taken ANY money out of any retirement accounts. He has two jobs. One
is as a staff ER doctor for a well known hospital where he has worked for
over 15 years. While there he has contributed the max allowable to his
pension which is matched by the hospital, and is, according to what I see,
an ERISA qualified pension (not property of the estate). His current pension
value there is about $1.5 million.
His second job is an ER doctor, through his medical comapny (MC). The
medical company bills that hospital, and the MC contributes to his SEP IRA
(exempt up to $1,090,000 per section 522), and he takes a salary from that
MC as well. He has caused the MC SEP IRA to invest well, very well, and that
has worked its way up to about $800,000.
I understand the issue re using IRAs like a piggy bank, but if the evidence
bears out the story (no real activity in these accounts for over a decade
other than making allowed contributions and investments), isn't my premise
good law? The ERISA qualified pensions aren't property of the estate to
begin with, and the SEP IRAsa are just exempt (section 522).
For everyone with a gold digging sister (or brother) out there, it might
interest you that while single, as far as I can tell, the client works about
120 hours a week, and that expalins his being single. He also appears to be
a miser that would make Ebeneezer Scroodge look like Mike Tyson with an
entourage of 20 after a prize fight win. He also is being sued for
malpractice, just maybe because he doesn't appear to SLEEP. Other than that,
he's a real catch!
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
www.expertbk.com
**Certified By The State Bar
Of California As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
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Message
LOL, well who said the
golddigger wants him to be around. It's the money they are after.......
The more time he spends at work, the more time the golddigger has to do .....
whatever....

What I don't know is
whether the $1.09 limit is an overall limit or just a limit on what is in the
estate. That statute needs to be checked carefully and perhaps
shepardized.


David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

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Sounds like a good basis for a motion to compel abandonment. In fact I
wonder if the Court would consider forcing the Trustee to post a bond to
protect the debtor for unpaid HOA fees so long as the Trustee wishes to
maintain control over the property.
I would like to argue that one (but would want to be paid for doing so).
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:36 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Re: HOA Dues After Trustee holds Property for 18 Months
then Abandons
David:
You are right, its an admin claim. Unfortunately, when the trustee abandoned
the house, there was no estate to administer and the case ended up being "no
asset". That is exactly the problem.
I think Dennis is right. We need to close the loophole in the Code. If the
debtors aren't living there, aren't collecting rent there, and state intent
to abandon in the initial filing, there should be no right to recover for
HOA, and exclusive remedy is with the estate as an admin claim.
Thanks for the input, guys.
-Jeffrey B. Smith**
CURD, GALINDO & SMITH, L.L.P.
301 East Ocean Blvd. #1700
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 624-1177
(562) 624-1178 fax
(310) 993-6560 cellular
www.expertbk.com
**Certified By The State Bar
Of California As A Specialist
In Bankruptcy Law
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Message
Sounds like a good basis
for a motion to compel abandonment. In fact I wonder if the Court would
consider forcing the Trustee to post a bond to protect the debtor for unpaid HOA
fees so long as the Trustee wishes to maintain control over the
property.

I would like to argue that
one (but would want to be paid for doing so).


David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

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I was joking about a claim against the Trustee, but why isn't this an
obligation against the estate, rather than the debtor? Does debtor succeed
to obligations of the estate?
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Dennis McGoldrick
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:00 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] HOA Dues After Trustee holds Property for 18 Months
then Abandons
Trustee has quasi-judicial immunity, no action here. The code section says
debtor is liable not trustee. Debtor eats it.
We have to get Nacba to lobby to get this fixed. I will take a change in
the law.
dennis

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