Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

I forgot to mention, we also file a business budget that we stick between Schedules "I" and "J" that sets forth the self-employment income. For those clients on unemployment, we send 60 days of Unemployment Comp receipts to the trustee with the tax returns
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, 12th Floor
Woodland Hills, California
91364-2203
Telephone: (818)226-1205
Email: kennethjschwartz@yahoo.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 5, 2010, at 8:08 PM, "Jonathan" wrote:
I have a form that i created that I have been using without a problem. Send an email to law@3yl.com and I will email you the form.
Jonathan Leventhal
>
> I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing documents and there orders only makes references to attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
>
> Mark Jessee
>
I forgot to mention, we also file a business budget that we stick between Schedules "I" and "J" that sets forth the self-employment income. For those clients on unemployment, we send 60 days of Unemployment Comp receipts to the trustee with the tax returnsKenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ21031 Ventura Boulevard, 12th FloorWoodland Hills, California Telephone: (818)226-1205Email: kennethjschwartz@yahoo.comSent from my iPhoneOn Jan 5, 2010, at 8:08 PM, "Jonathan" <law@3yl.com> wrote:

I have a form that i created that I have been using without a problem. Send an email to law@3yl.com and I will email you the form.
Jonathan Leventhal
com, "Mark Jessee" <mjessee@...> wrote:
>
> I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing documents and there orders only makes references to attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
>
> Mark Jessee
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

For self-employed clients, we always send the trustee 90 days of bank statements at the time we tender the tax returns. Never had a problem
Kenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.
LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ
21031 Ventura Boulevard, 12th Floor
Woodland Hills, California
91364-2203
Telephone: (818)226-1205
Email: kennethjschwartz@yahoo.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 5, 2010, at 8:08 PM, "Jonathan" wrote:
I have a form that i created that I have been using without a problem. Send an email to law@3yl.com and I will email you the form.
Jonathan Leventhal
>
> I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing documents and there orders only makes references to attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
>
> Mark Jessee
>
For self-employed clients, we always send the trustee 90 days of bank statements at the time we tender the tax returns. Never had a problemKenneth Jay Schwartz, Esq.LAW OFFICE OF KENNETH JAY SCHWARTZ21031 Ventura Boulevard, 12th FloorWoodland Hills, California 91364-2203Telephone: (818)226-1205Email:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

The trustee has every right to ask for the proof of income from a
self employed or unemployed debtor (non-employment income sources) and
have no problem cooperating to provide that information. My issue is
that trustee says we as attorneys are required to file such proof with
the court along with the Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) form. I see no
such requirment. I do not want to file documentation unless it is
required as I do not see it helping the debtor. I plan to provide it
to the trustee with my analysis, but not file such proof with the
court.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868
On Wed 6/01/10 9:40 AM , Dennis McGoldrick easky1@yahoo.com sent:
704 requires the trustee to investigate. 521 requires the debtor
to cooperate.
The UST will be glad the trustee is taking the extra step.
Cooperate.
Dennis McGoldrick 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B Torrance, CA 90503
On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:36 PM, "Mark J. Markus" wrote:
The form that gets filed with the petition titled "Debtor's
Certification of Employment Income Pursuant to ....521...."
specifically excludes paystubs from the list of statements the debtor
makes if he is self-employed or unemployed. I don't know if that's an
official form, or our local one, but either way, it's beyond argument
that they are not required for either self-employed or unemployed
debtors.
I would send a letter to the OUST attorney in charge of supervising
McBeth and "request" that they compel him to conclude the meeting. If
he doesn't, I'd file a Motion with the Court and embarrass the
Shakespeare out of him (OK, that was MACBeth....)
************************* Mark J. Markus Law Office of Mark J.
Markus 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403 Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax) web: http://www.bklaw [2].com/ This
Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this means at
http://bklaw

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

704 requires the trustee to investigate. 521 requires the debtor to
cooperate.
The UST will be glad the trustee is taking the extra step.
Cooperate.
Dennis McGoldrick
350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B
Torrance, CA 90503
On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:36 PM, "Mark J. Markus" wrote:
> The form that gets filed with the petition titled "Debtor's
> Certification of Employment Income Pursuant to ....521...."
> specifically excludes paystubs from the list of statements the
> debtor makes if he is self-employed or unemployed. I don't know if
> that's an official form, or our local one, but either way, it's
> beyond argument that they are not required for either self-employed
> or unemployed debtors.
>
> I would send a letter to the OUST attorney in charge of supervising
> McBeth and "request" that they compel him to conclude the meeting. > If he doesn't, I'd file a Motion with the Court and embarrass the
> Shakespeare out of him (OK, that was MACBeth....)
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
> means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/
> )
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
> office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
> intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
> addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
> the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
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> promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
> transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
> On 1/5/2010 7:30 PM, Mark T.Jessee wrote:
>>
>> Chapter 7 Trustee McBeth in Santa Barbara maintains it is required
>> and continued the 341(a) for that reason.
>>
>> Mark T. Jessee
>> Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
>> "A Debt Relief Agency"
>> 50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
>> Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
>> (805) 497-5868
>>
>> NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED
>> RECIPIENT OF
>> THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE
>> PRIVILEGED BY
>> LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE,
>> DISSEMINATION,
>> DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
>> PLEASE NOTIFY
>> US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS
>> MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
>>
>> On Tue 5/01/10 7:13 PM , "Patrick Green" pat@fitzgreenlaw.com sent:
>>
>> None. Whos asking for it?
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick T. Green, Esq.
>>
>> Fitzgerald & Green
>>
>> Attorneys at Law
>>
>> 1010 E. Union Street
>>
>> Suite 206
>>
>> Pasadena, CA 91106
>>
>> Tel: 626-449-8433
>>
>> Fax: 626-449-0565
>>
>> pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Behalf Of Mark Jessee
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:41 PM
>> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [cdcbaa] Filing Proof of Income for Self Employed or
>> Unemployed Debtor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and
>> the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)
>> (B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self
>> employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for
>> proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find
>> anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such
>> documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required
>> Chapter 7 filing documents and their order only makes references to
>> attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of
>> the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to
>> anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for
>> proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring
>> us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
>>
>> Mark Jessee
>>
>>
>
>
704 requires the trustee to investigate. 521 requires the debtor to cooperate.The UST will be glad the trustee is taking the extra step. Cooperate.Dennis McGoldrick350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207BTorrance, CA 90503On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:36 PM, "Mark J. Markus" <bklawr@yahoo.com> wrote:

The form that gets filed with the petition titled "Debtor's
Certification of Employment Income Pursuant to ....521...."
specifically excludes paystubs from the list of statements the debtor
makes if he is self-employed or unemployed. I don't know if that's an
official form, or our local one, but either way, it's beyond argument
that they are not required for either self-employed or unemployed
debtors.
I would send a letter to the OUST attorney in charge of supervising
McBeth and "request" that they compel him to conclude the meeting. If
he doesn't, I'd file a Motion with the Court and embarrass the
Shakespeare out of him (OK, that was MACBeth....)
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I have a form that i created that I have been using without a problem. Send an email to law@3yl.com and I will email you the form.
Jonathan Leventhal
>
> I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing documents and there orders only makes references to attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
>
> Mark Jessee
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Chapter 7 Trustee McBeth in Santa Barbara maintains it is required
and continued the 341(a) for that reason.
Mark T. Jessee
Law Offices of Mark T. Jessee
"A Debt Relief Agency"
50 W. Hillcrest Drive, Suite 200
Thousand Oaks, CA 91360
(805) 497-5868
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT OF
THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE
PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE,
DISSEMINATION,
DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
PLEASE NOTIFY
US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS
MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
On Tue 5/01/10 7:13 PM , "Patrick Green" pat@fitzgreenlaw.com sent:
None. Whos asking for it?
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green
Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street
Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com
FROM: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] ON
BEHALF OF Mark Jessee
SENT: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:41 PM
TO: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
SUBJECT: [cdcbaa] Filing Proof of Income for Self Employed or
Unemployed Debtor
I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and
the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section
521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self
employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for
proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find
anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation
to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing
documents and their order only makes references to attaching
paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter
Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other
than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if
they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of
income for the self employed or unemployed?
Mark Jessee
Links:
[1] mailto:pat@fitzgreenlaw.com?subjectRE: [cdcbaa] Filing Proof of
Income for Self Employed or Unemployed Debtor
[2] mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com?subjectRE: [cdcbaa] Filing Proof
of Income for Self Employed or Unemployed Debtor
[3]

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

None. Who's asking for it?
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green
Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street
Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Tel: 626-449-8433
Fax: 626-449-0565
pat@fitzgreenlaw.com

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I am looking at the Debtor's Certification of Employment income and the proof of income requirements. I see nothing in Section 521(a)(1)(B)(iv) requiring any documentation for debtor's who are self employed or who are unemployed. The local form itself only asks for proof of income from those who have an employer. I cannot find anything in the FRBP or the Local Rules Requiring such documentation to be filed. The local instruction list for required Chapter 7 filing documents and there orders only makes references to attaching paychecks. I just reviewed the just updated version of the Rutter Group Bankruptcy Guide and it makes no reference to anything other than paychecks. Obviously any trustee can ask for proof of income if they wish, but what authority is there requiring us to file proof of income for the self employed or unemployed?
Mark Jessee

The post was migrated from Yahoo.