I sat in on a 341a where the analyst was questioning the debtor on that very
issue; it appeared by the line of questioning and comments, that the "time
the debt was incurred" was important.
What about the case where the original purchase money mortgage was primarily
consumer, but then the debtor refinances and gets a 2nd (or even a 2nd and a
3rd) in which the money is used for business purposes?
Daniela
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:31 AM, wrote:
>
>
> Judge Mund stated in court yesterday that she treats mortgage debt as
> consumer or business depending upon the status at the time the debt is
> incurred. In Mr. Evans' case, it would appear that Judge Mund would treat it
> as consumer.
>
> The chacterization obviously impacts the debtors' ability to successfully
> prosecute a Lam motion. There is little to no case law in the 9th Circuit
> and, not surprisingly, case law from other jurisdictions is somewhat
> inconsistent.
>
> Naturally, one should therefore be careful in making representations to the
> client(s), and put the disclaimers in writing!
>
> Ray
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> ------------------------------
> *Date: *Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:28:53 +0000
> *To: *
> *Subject: *Re: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
>
>
>
> I agree that it is consumer debt.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> ------------------------------
> *Date: *Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:05:34 -0800
> *To: *
> *Subject: *RE: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
>
>
>
> Im trying to characterize the clients debts properly as either
> primarily consumer or business debt. The client has consumer credit card
> debt as well as a mortgage debt that exceeds the credit card debt. The
> mortgage is on a house that the client rents out, and is therefore according
> to my understanding (or misunderstanding) a business investment debt.
> However, the house was acquired for personal consumer use several years ago,
> and has only been rented out the last few months. Therefore, I think the
> mortgage is primarily consumer, but wasnt sure if its current rental status
> changed it to a business debt. Someone else answered that it should be
> classified as consumer debt.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> Law Office of Matthew Gary Evans
>
> Matthew Gary Evans, Esq.
>
> 16 North Marengo Avenue, Room 219
>
> Pasadena, California 91101
>
> Tel.: (626) 405-9448
>
> Fax: (626) 768-7565
>
> Cell: (213) 842-6645
>
> Email:
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com
>
>
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.com
>
>
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.net/Bankruptcy
>
> please visit my blog at matthewevanslaw.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> Member: California State Bar, American Bar Association, Consumer Attorneys
> Association of Los Angeles, Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys
> Association, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, Pasadena
> Chamber of Commerce
>
> NOTICE: This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are
> not the named addressee please do not disseminate, print, or copy this
> e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail if you have
> received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> *From:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
> Of *
attorneychristine@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:54 AM
> *To:*
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
>
>
>
>
>
> What are you trying to accomplish?
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> ------------------------------
>
>
> *Date: *Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:39:52 -0800
>
> *To: *;
>
> *Subject: *[cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
>
>
>
>
>
> How long does it take for real property encumbered by a mortgage loan to
> become a business debt? My client/debtor owns a house that is not his
> primary residence. He rents it out to tenants, but has been doing so for
> only the last 6 months. He owned the property for several years before
> that. The majority of the life of the house was a piece of consumer debt.
> What is its character in terms of business or consumer debt now that he> ready to file bk?
>
>
>
> Thanks (CentDist CA).
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> Law Office of Matthew Gary Evans
>
> Matthew Gary Evans, Esq.
>
> 16 North Marengo Avenue, Room 219
>
> Pasadena, California 91101
>
> Tel.: (626) 405-9448
>
> Fax: (626) 768-7565
>
> Cell: (213) 842-6645
>
> Email:
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com
>
>
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.com
>
>
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.net/Bankruptcy
>
> please visit my blog at matthewevanslaw.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> Member: California State Bar, American Bar Association, Consumer Attorneys
> Association of Los Angeles, Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys
> Association, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, Pasadena
> Chamber of Commerce
>
> NOTICE: This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are
> not the named addressee please do not disseminate, print, or copy this
> e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail if you have
> received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
Daniela P. Romero
Law Office of Daniela Romero, APLC
1015 N. Lake Ave., Ste. 115
Pasadena, CA 91104
Telephone:626-817-2611
Facsimile: 626-628-1781
email:
dromerolaw@gmail.com
NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. The information herein
is confidential, privileged & exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
This E-mail (including attachments) are intended solely for the use of the
addressee hereof. If you are not the intended recipient of this message,
you are prohibited from reading, disclosing, reproducing, distributing,
disseminating, or otherwise using this transmission. The originator of this
e-mail and its affiliates do not represent, warrant or guarantee that the
integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this
communication is free of errors, viruses or other defects. Delivery of this
message or any portions herein to any person other than the intended
recipient is not intended to waive any right or privilege. If you have
received this message in error, please promptly notify the sender by e-mail
and immediately delete this message.
To comply with IRS regulations, we advise you that any discussion of Federal
tax issues in this e-mail was not intended or written to be used, and cannot
be used by you, (i) to avoid any penalties imposed under the Internal
Revenue Code or (ii) to promote, market or recommend to another party any
transaction or matter addressed herein.
I sat in on a 341a where the analyst was questioning the debtor on that very issue; it appeared by the line of questioning and comments, that the "time the debt was incurred" was important.What about the case where the original purchase money mortgage was primarily consumer, but then the debtor refinances and gets a 2nd (or even a 2nd and a 3rd) in which the money is used for business purposes?
DanielaOn Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:31 AM, <
ray@averlaw.com> wrote:
Judge Mund stated in court yesterday that she treats mortgage debt as consumer or business depending upon the status at the time the debt is incurred. In Mr. Evans' case, it would appear that Judge Mund would treat it as consumer.
The chacterization obviously impacts the debtors' ability to successfully prosecute a Lam motion. There is little to no case law in the 9th Circuit and, not surprisingly, case law from other jurisdictions is somewhat inconsistent.
Naturally, one should therefore be careful in making representations to the client(s), and put the disclaimers in writing!RaySent flto:
attorneychristine@gmail.com" target"_blank">
attorneychristine@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:28:53 +0000To: <
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
I agree that it is consumer debt. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Blaf"mailto:
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com" target"_blank">
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:05:34 -0800To: <
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
Im trying to
characterize the clients debts properly as either primarily consumer or
business debt. The client has consumer credit card debt as well as a mortgage
debt that exceeds the credit card debt. The mortgage is on a house that the
client rents out, and is therefore according to my understanding (or misunderstanding)
a business investment debt. However, the house was acquired for personal
consumer use several years ago, and has only been rented out the last few
months. Therefore, I think the mortgage is primarily consumer, but wasnif its current rental status changed it to a business debt. Someone else answered
that it should be classified as consumer debt.
____________________________________
Law Office of
Matthew Gary Evans
Matthew Gary
Evans, Esq.
16 North
Marengo Avenue, Room 219
Pasadena,
California 91101
Tel.: (626)
405-9448
Fax: (626)
768-7565
Cell: (213)
842-6645
Email:
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.com
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.net/Bankruptcy
please visit my
blog at matthewevanslaw.wordpress.com
Member:
California State Bar, American Bar Association, Consumer Attorneys Association
of Los Angeles, Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys Association,
National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, Pasadena Chamber of
Commerce
NOTICE: This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are not
the named addressee please do not disseminate, print, or copy this e-mail. Please
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail if you have received this e-mail
by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you.
From:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
attorneychristine@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:54 AM
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
What are you trying to accomplish?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
<
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:39:52 -0800
To: <
bk@nacba.org>; <
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [cdcbaa] Real property as business debt
How long does it take for real property encumbered by
a mortgage loan to become a business debt? My client/debtor owns a house
that is not his primary residence. He rents it out to tenants, but has
been doing so for only the last 6 months. He owned the property for
several years before that. The majority of the life of the house was a
piece of consumer debt. What is its character in terms of business or
consumer debt now that hes ready to file bk?
Thanks (CentDist CA).
____________________________________
Law Office of Matthew Gary Evans
Matthew Gary Evans, Esq.
16 North Marengo Avenue, Room 219
Pasadena, California 91101
Tel.: (626) 405-9448
Fax: (626) 768-7565
Cell: (213) 842-6645
Email:
matthew@matthewgaryevanslaw.com
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.com
www.matthewgaryevanslaw.net/Bankruptcy
please visit my blog at matthewevanslaw.wordpress.com
Member: California State Bar, American Bar
Association, Consumer Attorneys Association of Los Angeles, Central District
Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys Association, National Association of Consumer
Bankruptcy Attorneys, Pasadena Chamber of Commerce
NOTICE: This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are not
the named addressee please do not disseminate, print, or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you.
-- Daniela P. RomeroLaw Office of Daniela Romero, APLC1015 N. Lake Ave., Ste. 115Pasadena, CA 91104Telephone:626-817-2611Facsimile: 626-628-1781email:
dromerolaw@gmail.com
NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. The information herein is confidential, privileged & exempt from disclosure under applicable law. This E-mail (including attachments) are intended solely for the use of the addressee hereof. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are prohibited from reading, disclosing, reproducing, distributing, disseminating, or otherwise using this transmission. The originator of this e-mail and its affiliates do not represent, warrant or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of errors, viruses or other defects. Delivery of this message or any portions herein to any person other than the intended recipient is not intended to waive any right or privilege. If you have received this message in error, please promptly notify the sender by e-mail and immediately delete this message.
To comply with IRS regulations, we advise you that any discussion of Federal tax issues in this e-mail was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used by you, (i) to avoid any penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) to promote, market or recommend to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
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