Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

LOL on the sexist grey beard.
Is it OK to refer to another attorney after retainer and/or RARA has been
filed?
Could newer attorney hire said grey-haired-individual?
1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
Pasadena, CA 91106
(626) 507-8090
"Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean
slate."
"Like the witness protection program!"
"Exactly."
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Dennis McGoldrick wrote:
>
>
> refer the case to a gray beard.
>
> hmmm is that sexist? A gray haired person.
>
> dennis
>
> --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, Amy Clark * wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Question: when case becomes more complex after
> signing up the client...
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:01 PM
>
>
>
> I think I was not clear in my first post -- this is NOT an issue of
> payment.
>
> Oh sure, there is that.
>
> BIGGER ISSUE is competency.
>
> How does a newer attorney deal with a case which spirals into increasingly
> tricky terrain? In my colleague's case, his client has quit taking a salary
> and is now just paying his mortgage from the corporation. What's a newer
> attorney to do on complex facts like this?
>
> I completely understand that once hired, you cannot just beg off going "Oh,
> dude, this is more than I bargained for!"
>
> However, the rules of ethics also require you to perform your job
> competently. See the problem now? Trust me, money is the least of the
> issues
>
> Although my first year in practice I went in the red with the worst cases
> that took so many hours! Of course it being 2006 and there being so few
> cases didn't help either.... But no, I have seen several newer counsel have
> cases with these wealthier, more "bossy" debtors that just are very
> complicated. Cases I would refer out in a heartbeat even when I still took
> on new bankruptcy cases! But once signed up -- what do you do?
>
> -- Amy Clark Kleinpeter
>
> 1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
> Pasadena, CA 91106
> (626) 507-8090
>
> "Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean
> slate."
>
> "Like the witness protection program!"
>
> "Exactly."
>
>
>>
>
>
>
LOL on the sexist grey beard. Is it OK to refer to another attorney after retainer and/or RARA has been filed?Could newer attorney hire said grey-haired-individual?
-- Amy Clark Kleinpeter1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207Pasadena, CA 91106(626) 507-8090"Bankruptcy, Michael,
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I think I was not clear in my first post -- this is NOT an issue of payment.
Oh sure, there is that.
BIGGER ISSUE is competency.
How does a newer attorney deal with a case which spirals into increasingly
tricky terrain? In my colleague's case, his client has quit taking a salary
and is now just paying his mortgage from the corporation. What's a newer
attorney to do on complex facts like this?
I completely understand that once hired, you cannot just beg off going "Oh,
dude, this is more than I bargained for!"
However, the rules of ethics also require you to perform your job
competently. See the problem now? Trust me, money is the least of the
issues
Although my first year in practice I went in the red with the worst cases
that took so many hours! Of course it being 2006 and there being so few
cases didn't help either.... But no, I have seen several newer counsel have
cases with these wealthier, more "bossy" debtors that just are very
complicated. Cases I would refer out in a heartbeat even when I still took
on new bankruptcy cases! But once signed up -- what do you do?
1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
Pasadena, CA 91106
(626) 507-8090
"Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean
slate."
"Like the witness protection program!"
"Exactly."
>
I think I was not clear in my first post -- this is NOT an issue of payment.Oh sure, there is that.BIGGER ISSUE is competency.How does a newer attorney deal with a case which spirals into increasingly tricky terrain? In my colleague's case, his client has quit taking a salary and is now just paying his mortgage from the corporation. What's a newer attorney to do on complex facts like this?
I completely understand that once hired, you cannot just beg off going "Oh, dude, this is more than I bargained for!"However, the rules of ethics also require you to perform your job competently. See the problem now? Trust me, money is the least of the issues
Although my first year in practice I went in the red with the worst cases that took so many hours! Of course it being 2006 and there being so few cases didn't help either.... But no, I have seen several newer counsel have cases with these wealthier, more "bossy" debtors that just are very complicated. Cases I would refer out in a heartbeat even when I still took on new bankruptcy cases! But once signed up -- what do you do?
-- Amy Clark Kleinpeter1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207Pasadena, CA 91106(626) 507-8090"Bankruptcy, Mic
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

As Erik Clark pointed out, a supplement fee app. is a way to get paid
for the additional work. However, you raise an interesting question
about scope of employment and/or what to do if you get in over your head
in a Ch. 13. Unfortunately, per our local rules--particularly where a
RARA is used (or is it ONLY where a RARA is used?), the attorney is
responsible for everything that happens in the case.
I've often wondered if, for example, there was a way to file a Chapter
13 case for a client and handle everything except LAM/lien strip
adversaries in front of certain downtown LA judges, but I can't quite
figure out how that would work as far as fees go and the scope of
employment of the original attorney. I think the "main" attorney would
have to substitute out and have the new attorney come in and do a fee
app, and there may be disgorgement issues for the original attorney (but
perhaps only in a RARA situation). Ideally, someone could come in as
"special counsel" like we do in Ch. 11 cases and do the additional work,
and it wouldn't affect the employment of the original attorney. Has
anyone tried that in a 13?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Amy Clark
> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM
> *To:* cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [cdcbaa] Question: when case becomes more complex after
> signing up the client...
>
> Hello all!
>
> A friend has this problem currently but I have surely been there and
> am seeking advice for the both of us!
>
> What is suggested when a newer attorney, especially newer to BK, takes
> on a case that seems relatively straight-forward, and then as more
> information comes out (post-signing of retainer) it becomes clear that
> this case is actually VERY complex and fraught with risk?
>
> The question is not about what a bummer it may be if this happens on a
> flat-fee 7 -- that is just the breaks, IMO. I am asking more for 13's
> that end up requiring multiple motions, the client's business records
> are in shambles, potential commingling breaks out, etc.
>
> The problem is that work has been done and referral fees are not
> allowed. Is it permissible to associate with another attorney at that
> point? Or what is the best practice?
>
> -- Amy Clark Kleinpeter
>
> 1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
> Pasadena, CA 91106
> (626) 507-8090
>
> "Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean
> slate."
>
> "Like the witness protection program!"
>
> "Exactly."
>
>
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.