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mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:23 am
by Yahoo Bot

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Of course, look at the notes: even the military isn't likely to have
an unenforceable note (having a lien with no due date or terms of
default).
But in any event, it seems this may be confusing
(a)the means test (i.e. balloon payment amount contractually due
within 60 months, whether or not being paid currently, which gets you
past the means test calculation and presumption of abuse) and
(b)the old "substantial abuse" issue under 727 that could be
calculated from the Schedules I and J (in which not planning on making
any payments may be a problem).
Jason Wallach
On May 14, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Mark J. Markus wrote:
> I actually haven't seen the Notes yet, so my question may have been
> premature, but Dennis' point is also well taken that if the debtor
> hasn't been making the payments, it might be problematic to use a
> different amount over the 60 months. On the other hand, if they are
> "contractually due" during that period and the debtors start making
> the payments (despite the bank apparently allowing them to pay less)
> it may be appropriate. Similar to debtor who are paying interest-
> only on a loan, but they could (and probably SHOULD) be paying
> principal and interest.
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
> means at http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/)
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
> office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
> intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
> addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
> the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
> imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
> in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
> written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
> avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
> promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
> transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
> On 5/14/2011 6:08 PM, Gerald McNally wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You presumably know what the loans are due, and the interest rate. >> Couldnt you amortize the loans over the period remaining before
>> theyre up? I would try for that in a Ch7 scenario.
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>>
>> Gerald McNally
>> McNally & Associates, P.C.
>> 517 East Wilson Ave., Ste 104
>> Glendale, CA 91206
>> 818.507.5100
>> Fax: 818.507.5001
>>
>> Notice to Recipient: This email is meant for only the intended
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>> for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal
>> Revenue code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
>> another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This email was scanned by VIPRE version 4.0.4182 when it was sent,
>> using definitions version 9282
charsetNDOWS-1252
Of course, look at the notes: even the military isn't likely to have an unenforceable note (having a lien with no due date or terms of default).But in any event, it seems this may be confusing (a)the means test (i.e. balloon payment amount contractually due within 60 months, whether or not being paid currently, which gets you past the means test calculation and presumption of abuse) and (b)the old "substantial abuse" issue under 727 that could be calculated from the Schedules I and J (in which not planning on making any payments may be a problem).Jason Wallach On May 14, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Mark J. Markus wrote:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:13 pm
by Yahoo Bot

I actually haven't seen the Notes yet, so my question may have been
premature, but Dennis' point is also well taken that if the debtor
hasn't been making the payments, it might be problematic to use a
different amount over the 60 months. On the other hand, if they are
"contractually due" during that period and the debtors start making
the payments (despite the bank apparently allowing them to pay less)
it may be appropriate. Similar to debtor who are paying
interest-only on a loan, but they could (and probably SHOULD) be
paying principal and interest.
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 6:08 pm
by Yahoo Bot

Mark,
You presumably know what the loans are due, and the interest rate.
Couldn't you amortize the loans over the period remaining before
they're up? I would try for that in a Ch7 scenario.
Gerry
McNally Bus Card Smaller
Gerald McNally
McNally & Associates, P.C.
517 East Wilson Ave., Ste 104
Glendale, CA 91206
818.507.5100
Fax: 818.507.5001
Notice to Recipient: This email is meant for only the intended
recipient of the transmission and may be a communication privileged by
law. If you received this email in error, and review, use,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly
prohibited. Please notify us immediately of the error by return email
and please delete this message and any and all duplicates of this
message from your system. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: In order to comply with the requirements
imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, we inform you that any U.S.
tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments)
is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue code or (ii) promoting,
marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter
addressed herein.
This email was scanned by VIPRE version 4.0.4182 when it was sent,
using definitions version 9282

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:21 pm
by Yahoo Bot

If the note is due uponsale or refinance and the debtor intends to do so within
60 months of the petition date, then arguably the amount is "contratually
due"for purposes of theMeansTest.
Peter M. Lively, JD, MBA
The Personal Financial Law Center* Culver City & Costa Mesa * 800-307-DEBT
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 6:53:57 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] mean test amount when no mortgage payment required
I have a debtor who, believe it or not, has two junior mortgages on
his property from a military credit union and there is no required
minimum monthly payment, but they can voluntarily make any payment
they want. They just have liens against the property. Is there any
way I can include some amount on the means test? We need it to
qualify for Chapter 7. I can argue that the full amount is
contractually due, but it's not due by any specific date....
thoughts?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:24 am
by Yahoo Bot

charset-ascii
I concur
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Dennis McGoldrick wrote:
>
>
> Mark:
>
> I don't like to file any payment the debtor has not been paying. In these cases, if there is no foreclosure, or other imperative to immediate filing, I instruct the debtor to make the payment that gets debtor pas the means test, then wait six months to file.
>
> That way if there is an audit, the debtor will pass. It is a little crazy that secured debt is supposed to be divided by 60 if there is no payment, but after Lanning, I don't trust filing without a little backup.
>
> dennis
>
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 6:53 PM
> Subject: [cdcbaa] mean test amount when no mortgage payment required
>
> I have a debtor who, believe it or not, has two junior mortgages on
> his property from a military credit union and there is no required
> minimum monthly payment, but they can voluntarily make any payment
> they want. They just have liens against the property. Is there any
> way I can include some amount on the means test? We need it to
> qualify for Chapter 7. I can argue that the full amount is
> contractually due, but it's not due by any specific date....
>
> thoughts?
>
> --
>
> *************************
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
> means at
> http://bklaw.com/bankruptcy-blog/2008/0 ... efinition/)
> ________________________________________________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
> office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
> intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
> addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of
> the contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
> imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
> in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
> written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
> avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
> promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
> transaction or matter addressed in this communication.
>
>
>
>
>
I concurSent from my iPhoneOn May 14, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Dennis McGoldrick <easky1@yahoo.com> wrote:

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:21 am
by Yahoo Bot

Mark:
I don't like to file any payment the debtor has not been paying. In these cases, if there is no foreclosure, or other imperative to immediate filing, I instruct the debtor to make the payment that gets debtor pas the means test, then wait six months to file.
That way if there is an audit, the debtor will pass. It is a little crazy that secured debt is supposed to be divided by 60 if there is no payment, but after Lanning, I don't trust filing without a little backup.
dennis
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 6:53 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] mean test amount when no mortgage payment required
I have a debtor who, believe it or not, has two junior mortgages on
his property from a military credit union and there is no required
minimum monthly payment, but they can voluntarily make any payment
they want. They just have liens against the property. Is there any
way I can include some amount on the means test? We need it to
qualify for Chapter 7. I can argue that the full amount is
contractually due, but it's not due by any specific date....
thoughts?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:55 pm
by Yahoo Bot

Use the amount they have been paying for the last 3 months?
Law Office of Catherine Christiansen
________________________________
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 6:53:57 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] mean test amount when no mortgage payment required
I have a debtor who, believe it or not, has two junior mortgages on
his property from a military credit union and there is no required
minimum monthly payment, but they can voluntarily make any payment
they want. They just have liens against the property. Is there any
way I can include some amount on the means test? We need it to
qualify for Chapter 7. I can argue that the full amount is
contractually due, but it's not due by any specific date....
thoughts?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

mean test amount when no mortgage payment required

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:53 pm
by Yahoo Bot

I have a debtor who, believe it or not, has two junior mortgages on
his property from a military credit union and there is no required
minimum monthly payment, but they can voluntarily make any payment
they want. They just have liens against the property. Is there any
way I can include some amount on the means test? We need it to
qualify for Chapter 7. I can argue that the full amount is
contractually due, but it's not due by any specific date....
thoughts?
*************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency (see what this
means at

The post was migrated from Yahoo.