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Jeff:
I had that case several years ago, say about 15 years ago. We used the
debtor's computers to provide a disk of the matrix (remember those good old
days?) I would call the Court Clerk's office, explain the issue and see
what they might suggest. One other thought. I had a similar case where I
filed both the entity and the principal. The Clerk's office was able to
"copy" the list from one debtor to the other. I don't know if that is still
possible, but this happened only about 7 years ago (before BAPCPA).
Alternative #2: Hire 20 college kids at $10/hour.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
jbsesq1965
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:12 PM
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] 60,000+/- persons on mailing matrix. HELP!
I have a PC that owns a company that sells, lets say, widgets. He owns all
the stock in Widgetco, and the company has sold a LOT of widgets to a LOT of
people over the last 4 years, say 60,000+/- cutomers, all of whose contact
information is stored in Widgetco's customer database.
PC has been pretty lax about corporate formalities and adhering to corporate
seperateness. Well, lets say VERY lax. Corporate $$ and personal $$ are
hopelessly co-mingled. A potential nightmare for the PC if faced with civil
alter ego claims.
A while back, the PC learned that some of his sales staff have made some
pretty remarkable claims, well, flatly untrue claims to be honest, while
pedalling widgets for Widgetco. The attorney general, well, the several
attorneys general, who investigated Widgetco threatened civil and criminal
actions. Widgetco agreed recently to some pretty heavy civil penalties, and
got covenants not to pursue criminal actions in the bargain.
Curiously, sales have dropped off considerably now that the sales staff has
been properly "re-educated". Widgetco is still in business, barely.
PC was investigated by the AGs for his role in Widgetco's sales practices,
and avoided criminal prosecution, barely. His very good criminal lawyer got
an agreement that limits PC's max PERSONAL contribution to the settlement,
to a number, and if Widgetco pays that much in its settlement, PC is off the
hook, civilly, and criminally with the AGs. PC is desperately trying to keep
Widgetco alive long enough to make it to the "magic number" that it needs to
pay the AGs on the consent decree, so he is off the hook personally. Today,
it looks like he WILL get there.
The DAY after that, PC would like to fold Widgetco's doors and file a
personal Chapter 7. He otherwise qualifies, and I agree that he should file
that Chapter 7. His personal debt is eye-popping, even for a 20 year vetran
of these wars like me, and he has lost most of his personal assets in real
estate and stock market losses.
Next fact: he might have one asset, a small piece of real estate that could
interest an agressive trustee in a Ch7, so there is the possibility that a 7
could be an "asset" case. Finally, if sued by an individual Widgetco
customer, we can assume that plaintiffs would include claims like, well,
"fraud".
Here is what I conclude. I see 60,000 +/- potential claimants in the
personal chapter 7 all of whom are pretty easily accessible in terms of
their last known address. Normally I don't care if everyone in a no asset,
no bar date case gets notice, (see Beezley). The exceptions to that are, of
course, potential asset cases and if the claimants have potential 523
calims, both of which are present here.
If I file this case for PC I want to list 60,000 potential creditors. Is
there any procedural way to avoid a list that big? Can potential creditors
be served by publication? Seems like no if we actually know who they are.
Unless the Widgetco computer will interface with my BK program, I'll have to
charge $10,000+/- to hire someone to do data input, alone. If anyone has any
experience with managing a creditor matrix of this size, I'd love to hear
about it.
Thanks.
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Message
Jeff:
I had that case several
years ago, say about 15 years ago. We used the debtor's computers toprovide a disk of the matrix (remember those good old days?) I would call
the Court Clerk's office, explain the issue and see what they might
suggest. One other thought. I had a similar case where I filed both
the entity and the principal. The Clerk's office was able to "copy" the
list from one debtor to the other. I don't know if that is still possible,
but this happened only about 7 years ago (before BAPCPA).
Alternative #2: Hire 20
college kids at $10/hour.
David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.