Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

Agreed. Until the client files the tax return for the prior year, you
need to estimate the refund and deal with it in B and C (if possible).
I think, also that the issue has been settled that the refund is not
additional income under the Means Test, correct? Might there also be
an issue that based upon the refund the amount of disposable income
would be higher? Remember, any refunds go to Chapter 13 Trustees
during course of plan! These issues seem to come up every year at
this time.
>
> Additional comment:
>
> I filed a case several years ago (owner of large pet store chain).
All was
> exempt, then her CPA informs me that he amended her returns going
back three
> years with a $10,000 refund. Todd Neilson just filed a final report
in an
> asset case. Yes, he got slost the entire refund (as all of her
exemptions
> were used except for about $2,000 of the refund).
>
> As a young consumer bankruptcy lawyer the firm taught me to always
list and
> exempt refunds. If the refund would be small and really unknow, I would
> list, "The debtor does not anticipate a refund, however if they were to
> receive a refund it is anticipted that it would be nominal".
>
> Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
> Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
> 11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
> Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
> Telephone: (310) 479-1400
> Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
> E-Mail: hmt@...
>
> Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
>
> We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
> Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
> problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
> of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
>
> This does not constitute an electronic signature.
>
> This message contains confiidential information which may also be
> privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to
receive
> for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
> information contained in this message.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Dennis McGoldrick
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 16:37
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax refund in Chapter 7
>
>
> All of the good trustees ask about tax refunds during
> 341a meetings from Jan to Apr.
>
> dennis
>
>
>
>

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Additional comment:
I filed a case several years ago (owner of large pet store chain). All was
exempt, then her CPA informs me that he amended her returns going back three
years with a $10,000 refund. Todd Neilson just filed a final report in an
asset case. Yes, he got slost the entire refund (as all of her exemptions
were used except for about $2,000 of the refund).
As a young consumer bankruptcy lawyer the firm taught me to always list and
exempt refunds. If the refund would be small and really unknow, I would
list, "The debtor does not anticipate a refund, however if they were to
receive a refund it is anticipted that it would be nominal".
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail: hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
Dennis McGoldrick
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 16:37
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax refund in Chapter 7
All of the good trustees ask about tax refunds during
341a meetings from Jan to Apr.
dennis

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I agree with Dennis. Additionally, we all must provide copies of tax
returns. Let's say for example that for a case filed in Jan 08 you send in
a 2006 tax return. Did the debtor get a refund? It is more than likely
they will get one in 2007. It needs to be provided for. Also, last year,
starting around Feb., the trustee's asked if the debtor filed their new
return, ie: A Jan 2008 case with a 341(a) heard in Feb or March. The
trustee will ask if the 2007 return was filed. Technically, that return
must be provided as it was the last return filed. Even if it was not filed,
they probably will ask if there is a tax refund due for 2007.
Bottom line, I always list the refund (tied to the tax return) and exempt
it.
Hank
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail: hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
Dennis McGoldrick
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 16:37
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax refund in Chapter 7
All of the good trustees ask about tax refunds during
341a meetings from Jan to Apr.
dennis

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

All of the good trustees ask about tax refunds during
341a meetings from Jan to Apr.
dennis

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

But do you find Trustees ask about expected refunds for prior years in 341(a) Meetings held in January-February?. I've had a few so far this year and it hasn't been raised.
James R. Selth
Weintraub & Selth, APC
12424 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1120
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF
THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
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To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/05/2008 11:54AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax refund in Chapter 7
>> At this time of year I always estimate the amount of tax refund, list it as
>> a potential refund on B and exempt it.
>>
>> Michael R. Totaro J.D., L.LM.
>> Totaro & Shanahan
>> P.O. Box 789
>> Pacific Palisades, CA 90272
>> 310 573 0276 (v) 310 712 6317 (f)
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exer ... 0000002489
>>
>>
But do you find Trustees ask about expected refunds for prior years in 341(a) Meetings held in January-February?. I've had a few so far this year and it hasn't been raised.

James R. Selth
Weintraub & Selth, APC
12424 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1120
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net

NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF
THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY
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--- Original Message---
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/05/2008 11:54AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Tax refund in Chapter 7

>> At this time of year I always estimate the amount of tax refund, list it as
>> a potential refund on B and exempt it.
>>
>> Michael R. Totaro J.D., L.LM.
>> Totaro & Shanahan
>> P.O. Box 789
>> Pacific Palisades, CA 90272
>> 310 573 0276 (v) 310 712 6317 (f)
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exer ... 0000002489
>>
>>


The post was migrated from Yahoo.

yes, to the extent its "rooted in the prebankruptcy past." ie, if
you file on July 1, half the refund is presumed to be property of the
estate unless you can show none of the refund is "rooted in the
prebankruptcy past." ie maybe the debtor didn't work the first half
of the year. See Segal v. Rochelle, 382 U.S. 375 (1966), "Turning
to the loss-carryback refund claim in this case, we believe it is
sufficiently rooted in the prebankruptcy past and so little entangled
with the bankrupts' ability to make an unencumbered fresh start that
it should be regarded as `property.'"
>
> Dear colleagues:
>
> If a Chapter 7 case is filed on December 31, is a tax refund to
which the Debtor will be entitled the following year property of the
estate? Assuming that the 341(a) meeting will be held before the
Debtor files his return, what position have the Trustees been
taking? Does it matter if the case is filed after January 1 and the
return has not been filed?
>
> Jim
>
> James R. Selth
> Weintraub & Selth, APC
> 12424 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1120
> Los Angeles, CA 90025
> Telephone: (310) 207-1494
> Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
> E-Mail: jim@...

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

At this time of year I always estimate the amount of tax refund, list it as
a potential refund on B and exempt it.

Michael R. Totaro J.D., L.LM.
Totaro & Shanahan
P.O. Box 789
Pacific Palisades, CA 90272
310 573 0276 (v) 310 712 6317 (f)
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Dear colleagues:
If a Chapter 7 case is filed on December 31, is a tax refund to which the Debtor will be entitled the following year property of the estate? Assuming that the 341(a) meeting will be held before the Debtor files his return, what position have the Trustees been taking? Does it matter if the case is filed after January 1 and the return has not been filed?
Jim
James R. Selth
Weintraub & Selth, APC
12424 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1120
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net
NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF
THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY
US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS
MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Dear colleagues:

If a Chapter 7 case is filed on December 31, is a tax refund to which the Debtor will be entitled the following year property of the estate? Assuming that the 341(a) meeting will be held before the Debtor files his return, what position have the Trustees been taking? Does it matter if the case is filed after January 1 and the return has not been filed?

Jim

James R. Selth
Weintraub & Selth, APC
12424 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1120
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Telephone: (310) 207-1494
Facsimile: (310) 442-0660
E-Mail: jim@wsrlaw.net

NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: THIS E-MAIL IS MEANT FOR ONLY THE INTENDED RECIPIENT OF
THE TRANSMISSION, AND THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED TO BE PRIVILEGED BY
LAW. IF YOU RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING OF THIS E-MAIL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY
US IMMEDIATELY OF THE ERROR BY RETURN E-MAIL AND PLEASE DELETE THIS
MESSAGE FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR COOPERATION.


The post was migrated from Yahoo.