That is a good question. I think we have asked each other that when we last
we answering the list serve at night (I have received E Mails from Scott
Bovitz at midnight. I asked him the same thing when I answered).
I missed that Inn of Court due to running a fever.
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail:
hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----
Mark JM
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 22:07
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] IRA distributionsI?
At the recent Inn of Court, the assistant US Trustee, Jill S., practically
encouraged us to file means test cases where the presumption arises and
attach a declaration as to why the presumption should be rebutted (e.g. I &
J make it impossible to do a Ch. 13). She was astonished that no one had
done this.
Why is it you and I are the only ones who work at night?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web:
http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office
of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any
disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is
prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or
in any attachment).
----- Original Message -----
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] IRA distributionsI?
I feel your pain. I have been wanting to do that. I just filed the
case I asked about a couple of weeks about where I took $200 for a 10 year
old car. If it is disallowed, she will be within $3 of passing and I am
going to see what happens (she is a teacher with LAUSD, and the district has
screwed up the payroll system, so they made a correction over some time all
at once and it fell right in Oct.) I/J is fine and otherwise she would have
been ok.
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail:
hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----
Of Mark JM
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 21:54
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] IRA distributionsI?
That's exactly what I've been doing, but I have a case now where I
can't wait, and it is going to put us over the median by about $140, and
after the means test analysis, he's showing DMI of like $500 per month, when
in reality he's got a huge negative budget (because he can't pull from his
IRA anymore). Maybe this is one of those I should just file saying the
presumption arises and have the debtor throw himself on the mercy of the
court.
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web:
http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee,
note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this
message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or
in any attachment).
----- Original Message -----
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] IRA distributionsI?
Mark:
I have been including all the IRA distributions in the CMI for the
year withdrawn if it was withdrawn in the six month period of the CMI. I
asked this question of NACBA and the CDCBAA sometime ago and the responses
were yes and no with the yes being the compelling majority. At the time it
was my position that the OUST would include it. Since I never have not
listed it, I have never found out if the OUST in my cases would have a
problem. If I could not pass the means test, I waited until it fell off.
Hank
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail:
hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United
States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their
debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the
filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confiidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Mark JM
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 20:54
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] IRA distributionsI?
Are withdrawals from IRA accounts included in the CMI for the
means test? I've been including 401k distributions, but are IRAs different?
Unfortunately, in a case right now, it makes the difference between being
eligible, and not.
If they are to be included, is it the full amount withdrawn, or
only some portion? Does anyone know what the OUST position is on this?
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web:
http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee,
note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this
message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this
communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used,
and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or
in any attachment).
That
is a good question. I think we have asked each other that when we last we
answering the list serve at night (I have received E Mails from Scott Bovitz at
midnight. I asked him the same thing when I
answered).
I
missed that Inn of Court due to running a fever.
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law
Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310) 575-0343E-Mail:
hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy
Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under
the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to
their debtproblems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the
filingof petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy
Code.This does not constitute an electronic signature.Thismessage contains confiidential information which may also be privileged. Unless
you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended
recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the information contained in this
message.
-----Original Message-----From:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark JMSent:
Tuesday, January 29, 2008 22:07To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] IRA
distributionsCMI?
At the recent Inn of Court, the assistant US
Trustee, Jill S., practically encouraged us to file means test cases where the
presumption arises and attach a declaration as to why the presumption should
be rebutted (e.g. I & J make it impossible to do a Ch. 13). She was
astonished that no one had done this.
Why is it you and I are the only ones who work at
night?
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA
91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web:
http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a
Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic
Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be
privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee
only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the
IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
(or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be
used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue
Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any
attachment).
----- Original Message -----
From:
Henry M. Toles
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:04
PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] IRA
distributionsCMI?
I
feel your pain. I have been wanting to do that. I just filed the
case I asked about a couple of weeks about where I took $200 for a 10 year
old car. If it is disallowed, she will be within $3 of passing and I
am going to see what happens (she is a teacher with LAUSD, and the district
has screwed up the payroll system, so they made a correction over some time
all at once and it fell right in Oct.) I/J is fine and otherwise she would
have been ok.
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310)
575-0343E-Mail:
hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally designated
Debt Relief Agency under the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist
people with finding solutions to their debtproblems, including, where
appropriate, assisting them with the filingof petitions for relief under
the United States Bankruptcy Code.This does not constitute an
electronic signature.This message contains confiidential information
which may also be privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or
distribute the information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----From:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark JMSent:
Tuesday, January 29, 2008 21:54To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] IRA
distributionsCMI?
That's exactly what I've been doing, but I
have a case now where I can't wait, and it is going to put us over the
median by about $140, and after the means test analysis, he's showing DMI
of like $500 per month, when in reality he's got a huge negative budget
(because he can't pull from his IRA anymore). Maybe this is
one of those I should just file saying the presumption arises and have the
debtor throw himself on the mercy of the court.
______________________Mark J.
MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB
#403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460
(fax)web:
http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is a
Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This
Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J.
Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the
use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that
any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message
is prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice
contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding
penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting,
marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
----- Original Message -----
From:
Henry M. Toles
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008
9:49 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] IRA
distributionsCMI?
Mark:
I have been including all the IRA distributions in the CMI for
the year withdrawn if it was withdrawn in the six month period of the
CMI. I asked this question of NACBA and the CDCBAA sometime ago
and the responses were yes and no with the yes being the compelling
majority. At the time it was my position that the OUST would include it. Since I never have not listed it, I have never found
out if the OUST in my cases would have a problem. If I could not
pass the means test, I waited until it fell off.
Hank
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law
Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310)
575-0343E-Mail:
hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of
Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally
designated Debt Relief Agency under the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debtproblems,
including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filingof petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy
Code.This does not constitute an electronic
signature.This message contains confiidential information which
may also be privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or
authorized to receive for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use
or distribute the information contained in this message.
-----Original Message-----From:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Mark JMSent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008
20:54To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [cdcbaa]
IRA distributionsCMI?
Are withdrawals from IRA accounts
included in the CMI for the means test? I've been including 401k
distributions, but are IRAs different? Unfortunately, in a
case right now, it makes the difference between being eligible, and
not.
If they are to be included, is it the
full amount withdrawn, or only some portion? Does anyone know
what the OUST position is on this?
______________________Mark J.
MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)web:
http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is
a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This
Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J.
Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for
the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee,
note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of
this message is prohibited.IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that
any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any
attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used,
for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue
Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another
party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in
any attachment).
The post was migrated from Yahoo.