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Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
When we were doing motions to sell or refinance, we built the fees ito
the motion and escrow for payment. The fee application went with the
motion to approve and we never had a problem with fees for preparation
and appearance at hearing on motion. I think Peter has it right to
include the fee application along with a substantive motion or
hearing. This issue of fees payable to consumer lawyers for work
performed will become more of an issue as the Lam Motions emerge and
there are more claims objections made. These fees to be paid through
the Plan. Is there an argument that if we prevail in Lam Motions or
claims objections that the fees are awardable under California Civil
Code Section 1717?
Lou Esbin
>
> We don't put anticipated time for anything. We have a hearing in 1
out of 25 fee apps (if that). I just add the actual time we spent
prepping and reviewing. The difference could be the amount of money
involved. Our CH 13 supp fee apps are usually around $1000-2000.
>
> M. Erik Clark
> Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
> West Covina, CA 91791
> www.BLClaw.com
> Office: (626) 332-8600
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
> Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
> American Board of Certification
>
> ________________________________
>
> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 7:28 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
>
>
> My experience has been exactly the opposite with respect to
projected time for: (1) completing the fee application; (2) appearing
on the fee application; (3) preparing, filing and serving the Order on
the fee app.
>
> David A. Tilem
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*?
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
>
> * Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
> ? Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
>
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:12 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
>
>
> Every supplemental fee application I file has a line item for the
time it has taken to prepare - and the time to review - the fee aoo.
Not one has been denied (we're talking hundreds of fee apps). As far
as the anticipated work - file multiple fee apps.
>
> M. Erik Clark
> Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
> 100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
> West Covina, CA 91791
> www.BLClaw.com
> Office: (626) 332-8600
> Fax: (626) 332-8644
> Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
> American Board of Certification
>
> ________________________________
>
> Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 5:11 PM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
>
>
>
> Welcome to the catch-22 world of Chapter 13 and pre-set flat fee
amounts. The analysis is actually one layer deeper. How do you do a
fee application for work YET TO BE DONE - i.e. how do you include your
time, expenses for the fee application hearing when drafting the fee
application? What happens in the real world (5 judges so far) is that
notwithstanding 9th Cir. law to the contrary, you don't get your fees
for doing the fee application. That portion of the application simply
gets denied. I have not found a suitable case (one with a sufficient
amount at stake) to take the matter up on appeal.
>
> David A. Tilem
> Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*?
> Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
> 206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
> Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
>
> * Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
> ? Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
>
>
>
Behalf Of Mark JM
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:49 AM
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
>
>
>
> I'm sure I'm overanalyzing this, but I've done maybe two of these in
my career, so I defer to the collective expertise of our group.
>
> Let's say I file a Motion to Modify a Ch. 13 plan for a debtor to
lower his plan payments by $100 per month because his rent increased.
>
> I file the Motion, factor in what I expect to be my attorney's fees
for doing the motion and a subsequent fee application, etc.
>
> For some reason, the court denies the motion to modify.
>
> If I then file the fee application, I assume it gets granted (I
mean, I did the work...). However, if it is granted, it must be paid
through the Plan and in order to do that, the plan must be modified
(because it will necessarily lower the percentage to be paid to
unsecureds). So do I then file a new motion to modify? (I'm
semi-joking here....) Obviously this could go on and on.
>
>
> ______________________
> Mark J. Markus
> Law Office of Mark J. Markus
> 11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
> Studio City, CA 91604-2652
> (818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
> web: http://www.bklaw.com/
> This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
> ___________
> NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law
office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is
intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the
addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the
contents of this message is prohibited.
> IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements
imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained
in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or
written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i)
avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting,
marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter
addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
We don't put anticipated time for anything. We have a hearing in 1 out of 25 fee apps (if that). I just add the actual time we spent prepping and reviewing. The difference could be the amount of money involved. Our CH 13 supp fee apps are usually around $1000-2000.
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.BLClaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="windows-1251"
My experience has been exactly the opposite with respect to projected time
for: (1) completing the fee application; (2) appearing on the fee
application; (3) preparing, filing and serving the Order on the fee app.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Every supplemental fee application I file has a line item for the time it has taken to prepare - and the time to review - the fee aoo. Not one has been denied (we're talking hundreds of fee apps). As far as the anticipated work - file multiple fee apps.
M. Erik Clark
Borowitz, Lozano & Clark, LLP
100 N. Barranca Avenue, Suite 250
West Covina, CA 91791
www.BLClaw.com
Office: (626) 332-8600
Fax: (626) 332-8644
Board Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy
American Board of Certification
________________________________
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I always prepare the supplemental fee application and serve it with the MOMOD which builds in the estimated fees (subject to court approval). Most of the work is done by the service date of the MOMOD (and Opp TMD) and the rest can be estimated for purposes of the MODMOD figures. That way, the fee app is already in the system and often beats the MOMOD to approval.
"David A. Tilem" wrote: Welcome to the catch-22 world of Chapter 13 and pre-set flat fee amounts. The analysis is actually one layer deeper. How do you do a fee application for work YET TO BE DONE - i.e. how do you include your time, expenses for the fee application hearing when drafting the fee application? What happens in the real world (5 judges so far) is that notwithstanding 9th Cir. law to the contrary, you don't get your fees for doing the fee application. That portion of the application simply gets denied. I have not found a suitable case (one with a sufficient amount at stake) to take the matter up on appeal.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal Specialization.
Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
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Message
Ahh good. And I thought I was going crazy
So basically, if you do a Motion to Modify, you're taking a leap as to getting paid for it, right? I just need to know whether to tell my client that it simply isn't worth it over $100 a month.----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
Welcome to the catch-22 world of Chapter 13 and pre-set flat fee amounts. The analysis is actually one layer deeper. How do you do a fee application for work YET TO BE DONE - i.e. how do you include your time, expenses for the fee application hearing when drafting the fee application? What happens in the real world (5 judges so far) is that notwithstanding 9th Cir. law to the contrary, you don't get your fees for doing the fee application. That portion of the application simply gets denied. I have not found a suitable case (one with a sufficient amount at stake) to take the matter up on appeal.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal Specialization.
Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
Mark JM
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:49 AM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Motion to Modify Ch. 13 Plan question
I'm sure I'm overanalyzing this, but I've done maybe two of these in my career, so I defer to the collective expertise of our group.
Let's say I file a Motion to Modify a Ch. 13 plan for a debtor to lower his plan payments by $100 per month because his rent increased.
I file the Motion, factor in what I expect to be my attorney's fees for doing the motion and a subsequent fee application, etc.
For some reason, the court denies the motion to modify.
If I then file the fee application, I assume it gets granted (I mean, I did the work...). However, if it is granted, it must be paid through the Plan and in order to do that, the plan must be modified (because it will necessarily lower the percentage to be paid to unsecureds). So do I then file a new motion to modify? (I'm semi-joking here....) Obviously this could go on and on.
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
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Message
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
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Welcome to the catch-22 world of Chapter 13 and pre-set flat fee amounts.
The analysis is actually one layer deeper. How do you do a fee application
for work YET TO BE DONE - i.e. how do you include your time, expenses for
the fee application hearing when drafting the fee application? What happens
in the real world (5 judges so far) is that notwithstanding 9th Cir. law to
the contrary, you don't get your fees for doing the fee application. That
portion of the application simply gets denied. I have not found a suitable
case (one with a sufficient amount at stake) to take the matter up on
appeal.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I'm sure I'm overanalyzing this, but I've done maybe two of these in my career, so I defer to the collective expertise of our group.
Let's say I file a Motion to Modify a Ch. 13 plan for a debtor to lower his plan payments by $100 per month because his rent increased.
I file the Motion, factor in what I expect to be my attorney's fees for doing the motion and a subsequent fee application, etc.
For some reason, the court denies the motion to modify.
If I then file the fee application, I assume it gets granted (I mean, I did the work...). However, if it is granted, it must be paid through the Plan and in order to do that, the plan must be modified (because it will necessarily lower the percentage to be paid to unsecureds). So do I then file a new motion to modify? (I'm semi-joking here....) Obviously this could go on and on.
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
___________
NOTICE: This Electronic Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
I'm sure I'm overanalyzing this, but I've done
maybe two of these in my career, so I defer to the collective expertise of our
group.
Let's say I file a Motion to Modify a Ch. 13 plan
for a debtor to lower his plan payments by $100 per month because his rentincreased.
I file the Motion, factor in what I expect to be my
attorney's fees for doing the motion and a subsequent fee application,
etc.
For some reason, the court denies the motion to
modify.
If I then file the fee application, I assume it
gets granted (I mean, I did the work...). However, if it is granted,
it must be paid through the Plan and in order to do that, the plan must bemodified (because it will necessarily lower the percentage to be paid to
unsecureds). So do I then file a new motion to modify? (I'm
semi-joking here....) Obviously this could go on and on.
______________________Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)web: http://www.bklaw.com/This Firm is aQualified Federal Debt Relief Agency___________NOTICE: This Electronic
Message contains information from the law office of Mark J. Markus that may be
privileged. The information is intended for the use of the addresseeonly. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copy,
distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited.IRS
CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS,
we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (or in
any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for
the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii)
promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or
matter addressed in this communication (or in any attachment).
The post was migrated from Yahoo.