MessageI think it is an absolute absurdity. The trustee's I have asked have
said they did not ask for this service.
Also, when I see a client has Wells Fargo Bank, I make them get a new bank
account and close the Wells Account before I will file the case, or make
them sign a waiver that the funds may (will) be frozen. I agree with David,
who deputized Wells Fargo to do this. To date, I have had no other bank do
this, although the threads have also said Bank of America occasionally does
so. So far, I have only had Wells Fargo do so. If the debtor has a credit
card listed with a specific bank and has a credit card with that bank, I
also have them get a new account. Since I have had this policy, I have had
no more frozen accounts.
Hank
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.
Henry M. Toles, A Law Corporation
11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1
Los Angeles, California 90049-6113
Telephone: (310) 479-1400
Facsimile: (310) 575-0343
E-Mail:
hmt@toles.org
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
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-----Original Message-----
David A. Tilem
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:36
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] 362 violation?
Just some random thoughts about this problem:
I understand the frustration, but failure to explain dissipation of
assets, i.e. where the missing bank account money went, is grounds for
denial of discharge. Not sure there is a legal basis so much as anything in
the account as of the filing date is property of the estate. So it should
be held until released by the estate under an exemption - or not. Still,
who deputized the banks? I suppose banks may be liable on a turnover action
(Sect. 542) for the amount on deposit as of the filing date so perhaps they
need to do this to protect themselves. Bottom line - I agree that it
creates real hardship for the debtor who would really like to buy some
groceries for his/her family this week.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
Susana Tolchard
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:10 AM
To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] 362 violation?
Thanks to all for your input. I would like to hear the legal basis. Is it
just banks? Or anyone who happens to hold a debtor's property can hold for
benefit of the estate? It seems counterintuitive. As a trustee, I would
think it would be better to have the money in the bank and a record of how
it is spent rather than have a debtor take all the money out and put it
under the matress just before filing, which apparently is what I need to
advise in the future?!
Susana B. Tolchard
Mark JM wrote:
David Tilem is the only one I know who can explain the legal basis for
them to do this, but they've been doing it for a couple of years now. You
basically just need to get the Trustee to tell them he has no interest in
the account funds, and they will unfreeze it.
______________________
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173 (818)509-1460 (fax)
web:
http://www.bklaw.com/
This Firm is a Qualified Federal Debt Relief Agency
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----- Original Message -----
To: CDCBAA
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:24 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] 362 violation?
This is a first one for me...Debtors filed 7 two days ago. Next day, I
received a fax from their bank (Wells Fargo) that the bank has received
notice of the BK and is thus freezing the debtors' checking account until
the trustee OKs a release?! Trustee did not freeze the account. We claimed
the monies in the account (tax refund) exempt. Wells Fargo is not a creditor
so I am not sure how they got notice but what right do they have to freeze
the account? Trustee is not too inclined to release until he "investigates."
Thanks in advance.
Susana B. Tolchard, Esq.
LAW OFFICES OF SUSANA B. TOLCHARD & ASSOCIATES
23734 Valencia Blvd., Suite 304
Valencia, CA 91355
Telephone: (661) 287-9986
Facsimile: (661) 287-9662
Member National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA)
We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under the United
States
Bankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to their debt
problems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the filing
of petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy Code.
This does not constitute an electronic signature.
This message contains confidential information which may also be
privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to
receive
for the intended recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the
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Message
I
think it is an absolute absurdity. The trustee's I have asked have said
they did not ask for this service.
Also,
when I see a client has Wells Fargo Bank, I make them get a new bank account and
close the Wells Account before I will file the case, or make them sign a waiver
that the funds may (will) be frozen. I agree with David, who deputized
Wells Fargo to do this. To date, I have had no other bank do this,
although the threads have also said Bank of America occasionally does so.
So far, I have only had Wells Fargo do so. If the debtor has a credit card
listed with a specific bank and has a credit card with that bank, I also have
them get a new account. Since I have had this policy, I have had no more
frozen accounts.
Hank
Henry M. Toles, J.D., M.B.A.Henry M. Toles, A Law
Corporation11746 Goshen Avenue, No. 1Los Angeles, California
90049-6113Telephone: (310) 479-1400Facsimile: (310) 575-0343E-Mail:
hmt@toles.orgMember National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy
Attorneys (NACBA)We are a federally designated Debt Relief Agency under
the United StatesBankruptcy Laws. We assist people with finding solutions to
their debtproblems, including, where appropriate, assisting them with the
filingof petitions for relief under the United States Bankruptcy
Code.This does not constitute an electronic signature.Thismessage contains confiidential information which may also be privileged. Unless
you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended
recipient) you may not copy, use or distribute the information contained in this
message.
-----Original Message-----From:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David A.
TilemSent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:36To:
cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [cdcbaa] 362
violation?
Just some random thoughts
about this problem:
I understand the frustration, but failure to explain dissipation of assets, i.e. where the missing bank account money went, is grounds for denial of discharge. Not
sure there is a legal basis so much as anything in the account as of the filing date is property of the estate. So it should be held until
released by the estate under an exemption - or not. Still, who deputized
the banks? I suppose banks may be liable on a turnover action (Sect.
542) for the amount on deposit as of the filing date so perhaps they need to
do this to protect themselves. Bottom line - I agree that it creates
real hardship for the debtor who would really like to buy some groceries for
his/her family this week.
David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
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