Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

Gracias
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] HOA debts and Ch. 7
Mark,
I represent some HOA's at times and they have a lien on the property that I have attached attached to in filing Proof of Claims.
Therefore, their debt in not dischargeable because they technically come before the mortgages anyway.
The HOA can get relief granted because they are not current with a secured debt.
"Mark J. Markus" wrote:
Finally had this become a pointed issue and never was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone has experience on this:
Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to the Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA had NOT gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.
President of HOA calls to ask what they can do now. I had several questions:
1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must debtor only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the prepetition arrearage because it is part of his tenancy agreement? In other words, is this akin to trying to stay in an apartment post petition without catching up on prepetition rental arrearages?
2. Is a court likely to grant relief from STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?
I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any input will be appreciated.
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
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Gracias
----- Original Message -----
From:
Nathan Berneman
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:17
PM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] HOA debts and Ch.
7

Mark,

I represent some HOA's at times and they have a lien on the property that
I have attached attached to in filing Proof of Claims.

Therefore, their debt in not dischargeable because they technically come
before the mortgages anyway.

The HOA can get relief granted because they are not current with a
secured debt.
"Mark J. Markus" <bklawr@bklaw.com>
wrote:
Finally had this become a pointed issue and
never was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if
anyone has experience on this:

Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to
the Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA
had NOT gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.

President of HOA calls to ask what they can do
now. I had several questions:

1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is
discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must
debtor only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the
prepetition arrearage because it is part of his tenancy
agreement? In other words, is this akin to trying to stay in an
apartment post petition without catching up on prepetition rental
arrearages?

2. Is a court likely to grant relief from
STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?

I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any
input will be appreciated.

***********************************************Mark J.
MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB
#403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460
(fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Mark,

I represent some HOA's at times and they have a lien on the property that I have attached attached to in filing Proof of Claims.

Therefore, their debt in not dischargeable because they technically come before the mortgages anyway.

The HOA can get relief granted because they are not current with a secured debt.
"Mark J. Markus" wrote:
Finally had this become a pointed issue and never was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone has experience on this:

Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to the Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA had NOT gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.

President of HOA calls to ask what they can do now. I had several questions:

1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must debtor only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the prepetition arrearage because it is part of his tenancy agreement? In other words, is this akin to trying to stay in an apartment post petition without catching up on prepetition rental arrearages?

2. Is a court likely to grant relief from STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?

I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any input will be appreciated.

***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)
509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
original message and all copies.
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Mark,

I represent some HOA's at times and they have a lien on the property that I have attached attached to in filing Proof of Claims.

Therefore, their debt in not dischargeable because they technically come before the mortgages anyway.

The HOA can get relief granted because they are not current with a secured debt.
"Mark J. Markus" <bklawr@bklaw.com> wrote:
Finally had this become a pointed issue and never was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone has experience on this:

Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to the Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA had NOT gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.

President of HOA calls to ask what they can do now. I had several questions:

1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must debtor only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the prepetition arrearage because it is part of his tenancy agreement? In other words, is this akin to trying to stay in an apartment post petition without catching up on prepetition rental arrearages?

2. Is a court likely to grant relief from STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?

I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any input will be appreciated.

***********************************************Mark J. MarkusLaw Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA 91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460 (fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb: http://www.bklaw.com/****************** ... dentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person orentity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyoneother than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible fordelivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If youhave received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the original message and all copies.


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The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Refer to 523(a)(16) which addresses the non-dishchargeability of fees or
assessments pre-petition for the period in which debtor either
physically occupied the unit or rented it out and derived rental income
from it.
I had a case where the HOA (in lieu of imposing a lien) simply sued the
homeowner for violating the HOA agreement with the intention of at least
getting a judgment against the debtor for the amount owed after which
the judgment may be enforced through other means such as a wage
garnishment or bank levy.
In your case, if the assessed fees are non-dischargeable, the HOA may
proceed with the same strategy if a judgment seems collectible.
________________________________

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Finally had this become a pointed issue and never was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone has experience on this:
Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to the Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA had NOT gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.
President of HOA calls to ask what they can do now. I had several questions:
1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must debtor only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the prepetition arrearage because it is part of his tenancy agreement? In other words, is this akin to trying to stay in an apartment post petition without catching up on prepetition rental arrearages?
2. Is a court likely to grant relief from STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?
I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any input will be appreciated.
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)
509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
original message and all copies.
Finally had this become a pointed issue and never
was sure how this worked, so I thought I'd throw this out and see if anyone has
experience on this:

Debtor files Ch. 7 and owes required dues to the
Homeowners' Assocation (HOA) on his real property. The HOA had NOT
gotten a lien for the amount owed prepetition.

President of HOA calls to ask what they can do
now. I had several questions:

1. Assuming the prepetition HOA debts is
discharged in the bankruptcy case, in order to stay in the property, must debtor
only pay post petition HOA amounts, or must he also pay the prepetition
arrearage because it is part of his tenancy agreement? In otherwords, is this akin to trying to stay in an apartment post petition withoutcatching up on prepetition rental arrearages?

2. Is a court likely to grant relief from
STay to allow the HOA to obtain and record a lien?

I really know nothing about HOA rights, so any
input will be appreciated.

***********************************************Mark J. MarkusLaw
Office of Mark J. Markus11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403Studio City, CA91604-2652(818)509-1173(818)509-1460 (fax)e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.comweb:
The post was migrated from Yahoo.