Central District Consumer Bankruptcy Attorney's Association

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MessageKudos for efiling. CF
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Venue/division question
Most importantly, it has nothing to do with you. You didn't assign it to any division, the Court did. I would emphasize that.
I am not sure that the venue rules described by Mark are applicable to assignments from one division to another. There must be some Local Rule or General Order dealing with the subject. You need to locate that item. But again, this is not something you did. I can't imagine the judge punishing you and I would be pleased to represent you on an appeal if he does.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem
500 N. Brand Blvd., #460, Glendale, CA 91203
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal Specialization.
Business bankruptcy specialist cert. by Amer. Bd. of Certification
Mark J Markus
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 4:54 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Venue/division question
First of all venue is not proper in Riverside unless the debtor lived in that area for at least 91 days prior to the filing of the petition. You raise an interesting issue, however, with respect to e-filing and how you can bypass the automatic assigning of the division. I haven't had that come up, so I haven't really tried to alter it, but there must be some way to do it. In any event, I think you have a good defense on that point, and I would fight any disgorgement of fees. That has absolutely nothing to do with venue.
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
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509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
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----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Venue/division question
I e-filed a 7. Shortly before filing, clients moved from a long time address in the LA division to a new address in the Riverside Division. 341A is scheduled for this Thursday. This afternoon the Chapter 7 trustee called to tell me that venue was wrong and I should have filed in LA div and further that UST would be there to challenge venue and my fees. I e-filed in Central District, the clerk assigned the division, I didnt. First of all, I think they have no idea what they are talking about because the 180 day rule applies to what district the debtor is in and says nothing about division. Secondly, I checked the local rules before I filed and found nothing regarding the issue. Lastly, I dont want to be in their division anyway because it is too far away from my office.
1.. Am I wrong? Is their some secret rule I should know about?
2.. If I am wrong, how do I fix the problem that I didnt create?
3.. The UST is also going to try to bust my chops on fees, which they are wrong on also (this a 7 w/ more than a dozen years of taxes to analyze, both state and fed- I charged by the hour) so I will be dealing with them on two fronts. My style and attitude is fight them on both, because I think Im right and they are wrong, arrogant, bullying and are trying to make up law regarding venue. Should I go toe to toe or should I modulate?
Any other helpful advice that is not invited by the above questions will be appreciated.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net
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The post was migrated from Yahoo.

Hi Pat,
My opinion, from experience, is that the case could be filed properly
in the Los Angeles Division. The debtor must file the case in the
district/division where the debtor had a domicile, residence,
principle place of business for a longer portion of the previous 180-
day period than any other district, (i.e., where did the debtor live
for 91 days of the last 180 days before filing?). See 28 U.S.C.
Section 1408.
Ty Takeuchi

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

As far as I know its district, and they are all Central District - division is not a factor and those are the required disclosures also.
Charles Shamash, Esq.
Caceres & Shamash, LLP
8383 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1010
Beverly Hills, CA 90211-2409
Tel: (323) 852-1600 Extn. 101
Fax: (323) 852-9009
Email: cs@locs.com
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:42 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Venue/division question
I e-filed a 7. Shortly before filing, clients moved from a long time address in the LA division to a new address in the Riverside Division. 341A is scheduled for this Thursday. This afternoon the Chapter 7 trustee called to tell me that venue was wrong and I should have filed in LA div and further that UST would be there to challenge venue and my fees. I e-filed in Central District, the clerk assigned the division, I didn't. First of all, I think they have no idea what they are talking about because the 180 day rule applies to what district the debtor is in and says nothing about division. Secondly, I checked the local rules before I filed and found nothing regarding the issue. Lastly, I don't want to be in their division anyway because it is too far away from my office.
1.. Am I wrong? Is their some secret rule I should know about?
2.. If I am wrong, how do I fix the problem that I didn't create?
3.. The UST is also going to try to bust my chops on fees, which they are wrong on also (this a 7 w/ more than a dozen years of taxes to analyze, both state and fed- I charged by the hour) so I will be dealing with them on two fronts. My style and attitude is fight them on both, because I think I'm right and they are wrong, arrogant, bullying and are trying to make up law regarding venue. Should I go toe to toe or should I modulate?
Any other helpful advice that is not invited by the above questions will be appreciated.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cdcbaa/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
cdcbaa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I have since been pointed to Local Bk Rule 1071-1 which says that division
is determined by street address and/or applicable zip code as designated by
the clerk. Division is a different issue than venue as defined by 28 usc 1408. I clearly didnt do a very thorough job when I looked at the local
rules the first time or I would have already known that the UST was wrong.
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net
_____

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

First of all venue is not proper in Riverside unless the debtor lived in that area for at least 91 days prior to the filing of the petition. You raise an interesting issue, however, with respect to e-filing and how you can bypass the automatic assigning of the division. I haven't had that come up, so I haven't really tried to alter it, but there must be some way to do it. In any event, I think you have a good defense on that point, and I would fight any disgorgement of fees. That has absolutely nothing to do with venue.
***********************************************
Mark J. Markus
Law Office of Mark J. Markus
11684 Ventura Blvd. PMB #403
Studio City, CA 91604-2652
(818)509-1173
(818)509-1460 (fax)
e-mail: bklawr@bklaw.com
web: http://www.bklaw.com/
************************************************
Confidentiality Note: This e-mail is intended only for the person or
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone
other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you
have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately at (818)
509-1173 or e-mail us at bklawr@bklaw.com and destroy the
original message and all copies.
----- Original Message -----
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: [cdcbaa] Venue/division question
I e-filed a 7. Shortly before filing, clients moved from a long time address in the LA division to a new address in the Riverside Division. 341A is scheduled for this Thursday. This afternoon the Chapter 7 trustee called to tell me that venue was wrong and I should have filed in LA div and further that UST would be there to challenge venue and my fees. I e-filed in Central District, the clerk assigned the division, I didn't. First of all, I think they have no idea what they are talking about because the 180 day rule applies to what district the debtor is in and says nothing about division. Secondly, I checked the local rules before I filed and found nothing regarding the issue. Lastly, I don't want to be in their division anyway because it is too far away from my office.
1.. Am I wrong? Is their some secret rule I should know about?
2.. If I am wrong, how do I fix the problem that I didn't create?
3.. The UST is also going to try to bust my chops on fees, which they are wrong on also (this a 7 w/ more than a dozen years of taxes to analyze, both state and fed- I charged by the hour) so I will be dealing with them on two fronts. My style and attitude is fight them on both, because I think I'm right and they are wrong, arrogant, bullying and are trying to make up law regarding venue. Should I go toe to toe or should I modulate?
Any other helpful advice that is not invited by the above questions will be appreciated.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cdcbaa/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
cdcbaa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

The post was migrated from Yahoo.

I e-filed a 7. Shortly before filing, clients moved from a long time
address in the LA division to a new address in the Riverside Division. 341A
is scheduled for this Thursday. This afternoon the Chapter 7 trustee called
to tell me that venue was wrong and I should have filed in LA div and
further that UST would be there to challenge venue and my fees. I e-filed
in Central District, the clerk assigned the division, I didn't. First of
all, I think they have no idea what they are talking about because the 180
day rule applies to what district the debtor is in and says nothing about
division. Secondly, I checked the local rules before I filed and found
nothing regarding the issue. Lastly, I don't want to be in their division
anyway because it is too far away from my office.
1. Am I wrong? Is their some secret rule I should know about?
2. If I am wrong, how do I fix the problem that I didn't create?
3. The UST is also going to try to bust my chops on fees, which they
are wrong on also (this a 7 w/ more than a dozen years of taxes to analyze,
both state and fed- I charged by the hour) so I will be dealing with them on
two fronts. My style and attitude is fight them on both, because I think
I'm right and they are wrong, arrogant, bullying and are trying to make up
law regarding venue. Should I go toe to toe or should I modulate?
Any other helpful advice that is not invited by the above questions will be
appreciated.
Pat
Patrick T. Green, Esq.
Fitzgerald & Green, Attorneys at Law
1010 E. Union Street Suite 206
Pasadena, CA 91106
Ph: (626) 449-8433
Fax: (626) 449-0565
pg23@earthlink.net

The post was migrated from Yahoo.