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Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
I agree with Jason. I email the pdf.
filed docs are not confidential. There is no prejudice to the client to give a public doc to a lawyer. This is just professional courtesy.
d
Dennis McGoldrick, 350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B, Torrance, Ca 90503 310-328-1001-voice
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:37 PM, "'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.' law@3yl.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> Please do not take this as confrontational.
>
> Think of it this way.
> The Attorney is lazy and or does not know how to access pacer. Perhaps the Attorney would be too lazy to get a pacer account and allows the objection to discharge date lapse.
>
> But if the Attorney is provided with all the docs, he/she finds something and files an objection then you have hurt your client.
>
> CALL ME PARANOID BUT MY CLIENT COSTS FIRST!
>
> You can do no harm by saying sorry to the Attorney. Rather than explains an objection to discharge to your client.
>
>
> Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
> Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
> 818-347-5800
>
> NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email.
>
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
>
> Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
>
> Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been paid.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Date:07/07/2014 7:11 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
>
>
> boy, paranoia runs deep in the heartland.
>
> What would you possibly gain by denying a lawyer or creditor the publicly available information that you can send with a few keystrokes?
> Perhaps you gain a more cooperative lawyer or creditor, or perhaps you give the illusion "I have nothing to hide", or perhaps you do it because you have an obligation to be civil.
> Prejudice is not an applicable concept in this situation: your client cannot conceivably be prejudiced by turning over publicly available information.
> In short, I always cooperate in this situation unless the creditor or lawyer has already proven to be an uncooperative a-hole.
> Smiling,
> Jason
> CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
> ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
>
> --
> JASON WALLACH, ESQ.
> Gladstone Michel Weisberg Willner & Sloane, ALC
> 4551 Glencoe Avenue, Suite 300
> Marina del Rey CA 90292-7925
> Tel: (310) 821-9000
> Direct: (310) 775-8725
> Fax: (310) 775-8775
> Email: jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
> www. gladstonemichel.com
>
> NOTE: The information contained in this email may contain attorney-client
> privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the
> individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
> the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver
> it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.
>
>> On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:02 PM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.' law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Your duty is to your client. A creditor is not a friend to your client. He/she is looking for something?? It is a fishing expedition!
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> Date: 07/07/2014 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Creditor (debtor's former family law attorney) in a no-asset Chapter 7 case has asked for a copy of my client's bankruptcy petition via email as a "professional courtesy." I have the complete petition and schedules in PDF format and could easily comply, but should I? (Technically, they just asked for the "petition" so I could also be technical about it and just send the petition, without any schedules.)
>>
>>
>>
>> In general, I like to be cooperative and professionally courteous, when doing so is not prejudicial to my client. In this case, however, it seems to me that this creditor is requesting information that they could easily obtain on their own, and I don't want to encourage creditors to regularly make these kinds of requests of debtors' attorneys, so I am inclined to deny the request. On the other hand, I don't really want to be seen as uncooperative. Is this creditor request over the line? What are others doing with these kinds of requests?
>>
>
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
I also would not hesitate to provide this information. Besides the angles
that have already been mentioned: civility/decorum and asking for
extensions when we need it, there are two other reasons I can think of off
the top of my head.
First, I don't want opposing counsel who doesn't even have a pacer account
to call his knowledgeable friend who is a bk ace to ask for the petition.
You know the bk guy is going to get involved (either because he's a friend
or looking for work). Now you have a bk pro looking over the petition. I
rather avoid that.
The second idea, and I am thinking off the top of my head, I don't know if
it's ethical to purposefully do, is to tell the guy you'll stipulate to
extending the time to file a nondischargeability action by an extra 30 days
in hopes that he'll miss the 60 day deadline. I got this idea from the BAP
case and have not thought about it since.
Sincerely,
Michael Avanesian
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:55 PM, Jason Wallach jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
[cdcbaa] wrote:
>
>
> And working in a little credible advocacy at the same time. Good solution!
> Jason
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:59 PM, "cliff@bordeauxlaw.com [cdcbaa]" cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
> I agree with your analysis--I don't think it will be prejudicial to
> provide the publicly available document. I think I will send it along with
> a polite explanation of why the particular debt does not fall within the
> 523(a)(5) or 523(a)(15) discharge exceptions--I think that would be the
> professionally courteous thing to do.
>
>
>
I also would not hesitate to provide this information. Besides the angles that have already been mentioned: civility/decorum and asking for extensions when we need it, there are two other reasons I can think of off the top of my head.
First, I do
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
And working in a little credible advocacy at the same time. Good solution!
Jason
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:59 PM, "cliff@bordeauxlaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
>
> I agree with your analysis--I don't think it will be prejudicial to provide the publicly available document. I think I will send it along with a polite explanation of why the particular debt does not fall within the 523(a)(5) or 523(a)(15) discharge exceptions--I think that would be the professionally courteous thing to do.
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Reply-To: Desiree Causey
X-Original-Return-Path: Desiree Causey
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: groups-system
I have been involved in family law matters and asked for the bk petition of the opposing party and are frequently told to go to Pacer and get it. I agree with whoever said it was a fishing expedition. When I am looking for a petition, it is because I am fishing. Also, for those that say to provide it would you provide it to every creditor who called and asked for it?
Desiree Causey
714-375-6663
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:59 PM, "cliff@bordeauxlaw.com [cdcbaa]" wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
>
> I agree with your analysis--I don't think it will be prejudicial to provide the publicly available document. I think I will send it along with a polite explanation of why the particular debt does not fall within the 523(a)(5) or 523(a)(15) discharge exceptions--I think that would be the professionally courteous thing to do.
>
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Please do not take this as confrontational.
Think of it this way.
The Attorney is lazy and or does not know how to access pacer. Perhaps the Attorney would be too lazy to get a pacer account and allows the objection to discharge date lapse.
But if the Attorney is provided with all the docs, he/she finds something and files an objection then you have hurt your client.
CALL ME PARANOID BUT MY CLIENT COSTS FIRST!
You can do no harm by saying sorry to the Attorney. Rather than explains an objection to discharge to your client.
Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
818-347-5800
NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been paid.
Date:07/07/2014 7:11 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
boy, paranoia runs deep in the heartland.
What would you possibly gain by denying a lawyer or creditor the publicly available information that you can send with a few keystrokes?
Perhaps you gain a more cooperative lawyer or creditor, or perhaps you give the illusion "I have nothing to hide", or perhaps you do it because you have an obligation to be civil.
Prejudice is not an applicable concept in this situation: your client cannot conceivably be prejudiced by turning over publicly available information.
In short, I always cooperate in this situation unless the creditor or lawyer has already proven to be an uncooperative a-hole.
Smiling,
Jason
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
JASON WALLACH, ESQ.
Gladstone Michel Weisberg Willner & Sloane, ALC
4551 Glencoe Avenue, Suite 300
Marina del Rey CA 90292-7925
Tel: (310) 821-9000
Direct: (310) 775-8725
Fax: (310) 775-8775
Email: jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
www. gladstonemichel.com
NOTE: The information contained in this email may contain attorney-client
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the
individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.
On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:02 PM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.' law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
Your duty is to your client. A creditor is not a friend to your client. He/she is looking for something?? It is a fishing expedition!
a@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 07/07/2014 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
Creditor (debtor's former family law attorney) in a no-asset Chapter 7 case has asked for a copy of my client's bankruptcy petition via email as a "professional courtesy." I have the complete petition and schedules in PDF format and could easily comply, but should I? (Technically, they just asked for the "petition" so I could also be technical about it and just send the petition, without any schedules.)
In general, I like to be cooperative and professionally courteous, when doing so is not prejudicial to my client. In this case, however, it seems to me that this creditor is requesting information that they could easily obtain on their own, and I don't want to encourage creditors to regularly make these kinds of requests of debtors' attorneys, so I am inclined to deny the request. On the other hand, I don't really want to be seen as uncooperative. Is this creditor request over the line? What are others doing with these kinds of requests?
Please do not take this as confrontational.
Think of it this way.
The Attorney is lazy and or does not know how to access pacer. Perhaps the Attorney would be too lazy to get a pacer account and allows the objection to discharge date lapse.
But if the Attorney is provided with all the docs, he/she finds something and files an objection then you have hurt your client.
CALL ME PARANOID BUT MY CLIENT COSTS FIRST!
You can do no harm by saying sorry to the Attorney. Rather than explains an objection to discharge to your client.
Jonathan Leventhal, Esq..
Leventhal Law Group, P.C.
818-347-5800
NO EX-PARTE NOTICE VIA VOICE MAIL OR EMAIL: I do not accept e-mail notice for ex parte Applications via voicemail or by email.
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
Leventhal Law Group, P.C. is a Debt Relief Agency under federal law.
Note: The Leventhal Law Group, P.C. does not represent you until a written fee agreement has been signed by you and a representative of the Leventhal Law Group, P.C. and all fees listed in the agreement have been paid.
-------- Original message --------
Date:07/07/2014 7:11 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
boy, paranoia runs deep in the heartland.
What would you possibly gain by denying a lawyer or creditor the publicly available information that you can send with a few keystrokes?
Perhaps you gain a more cooperative lawyer or creditor, or perhaps you give the illusion "I have nothing to hide", or perhaps you do it because you have an obligation to be civil.
Prejudice is not an applicable concept in this situation: your client cannot conceivably be prejudiced by turning over publicly available information.
In short, I always cooperate in this situation unless the creditor or lawyer has already proven to be an uncooperative a-hole.
Smiling,
Jason
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
--
JASON WALLACH, ESQ.
Gladstone Michel Weisberg Willner & Sloane, ALC
4551 Glencoe Avenue, Suite 300
Marina del Rey CA 90292-7925
Tel: (310) 821-9000
Direct: (310) 775-8725
Fax: (310) 775-8775
Email: jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
www. gladstonemichel.com
NOTE: The information contained in this email may contain attorney-client
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the
individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.
On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:02 PM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.'
law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
Your duty is to your client. A creditor is not a friend to your client. He/she is looking for something?? It is a fishing expedition!
/a> [cdcbaa]" <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 07/07/2014 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
Creditor (debtor's former family law attorney) in a no-asset Chapter 7 case has asked for a copy of my client's bankruptcy petition via email as a "professional courtesy." I have the complete petition and schedules in PDF format and could easily comply,
but should I? (Technically, they just asked for the "petition" so I could also be technical about it and just send the petition, without any schedules.)
In general, I like to be cooperative and professionally courteous, when doing so is not prejudicial to my client. In this case, however, it seems to me that this creditor is requesting information that they could easily obtain on their own, and I don't
want to encourage creditors to regularly make these kinds of requests of debtors' attorneys, so I am inclined to deny the request. On the other hand, I don't really want to be seen as uncooperative. Is this creditor request over the line? What are others
doing with these kinds of requests?
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charsetndows-1252
boy, paranoia runs deep in the heartland.
What would you possibly gain by denying a lawyer or creditor the publicly available information that you can send with a few keystrokes?
Perhaps you gain a more cooperative lawyer or creditor, or perhaps you give the illusion "I have nothing to hide", or perhaps you do it because you have an obligation to be civil.
Prejudice is not an applicable concept in this situation: your client cannot conceivably be prejudiced by turning over publicly available information.
In short, I always cooperate in this situation unless the creditor or lawyer has already proven to be an uncooperative a-hole.
Smiling,
Jason
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE
JASON WALLACH, ESQ.
Gladstone Michel Weisberg Willner & Sloane, ALC
4551 Glencoe Avenue, Suite 300
Marina del Rey CA 90292-7925
Tel: (310) 821-9000
Direct: (310) 775-8725
Fax: (310) 775-8775
Email: jwallach@gladstonemichel.com
www. gladstonemichel.com
NOTE: The information contained in this email may contain attorney-client
privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the
individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.
On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:02 PM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.' law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
> Your duty is to your client. A creditor is not a friend to your client. He/she is looking for something?? It is a fishing expedition!
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Date: 07/07/2014 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
>
>
>
>
> Creditor (debtor's former family law attorney) in a no-asset Chapter 7 case has asked for a copy of my client's bankruptcy petition via email as a "professional courtesy." I have the complete petition and schedules in PDF format and could easily comply, but should I? (Technically, they just asked for the "petition" so I could also be technical about it and just send the petition, without any schedules.)
>
>
>
> In general, I like to be cooperative and professionally courteous, when doing so is not prejudicial to my client. In this case, however, it seems to me that this creditor is requesting information that they could easily obtain on their own, and I don't want to encourage creditors to regularly make these kinds of requests of debtors' attorneys, so I am inclined to deny the request. On the other hand, I don't really want to be seen as uncooperative. Is this creditor request over the line? What are others doing with these kinds of requests?
>
>
>
>
charsetndows-1252
boy, paranoia runs deep in the heartland.What would you possibly gain by denying a lawyer or creditor the publicly available information that you can send with a few keystrokes?Perhaps you gain a more cooperative lawyer or creditor, or perhaps you give the illusion "I have nothing to hide", or perhaps you do it because you have an obligation to be civil.Prejudice is not an applicable concept in this situation: your client cannot conceivably be prejudiced by turning over publicly available information.In short, I always cooperate in this situation unless the creditor or lawyer has already proven to be an uncooperative a-hole.Smiling,Jason
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE-- JASON WALLACH, ESQ.Gladstone Michel Weisberg Willner & Sloane, ALC4551 Glencoe Avenue, Suite 300Marina del Rey CA 90292-7925Tel: (310) 821-9000Direct: (310) 775-8725Fax: (310) 775-8775Email: jwallach@gladstonemichel.comwww. gladstonemichel.comNOTE: The information contained in this email may contain attorney-clientprivileged and confidential information intended only for the use of theindividual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is notthe intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliverit to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that anydissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictlyprohibited. If you have received this communication in error, pleasenotify us immediately by email and delete the original message.
On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:02 PM, 'Leventhal Law Group, P.C.' law@3yl.com [cdcbaa] wrote:
Your duty is to your client. A creditor is not a friend to your client. He/she is looking for something?? It is a fishing expedition!
cdcbaa]" <cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 07/07/2014 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Creditor request for Ch 7 petition
Creditor (debtor's former family law attorney) in a no-asset Chapter 7 case has asked for a copy of my client's bankruptcy petition via email as a "professional courtesy." I have the complete petition and schedules in PDF format and could easily comply,
but should I? (Technically, they just asked for the "petition" so I could also be technical about it and just send the petition, without any schedules.)
In general, I like to be cooperative and professionally courteous, when doing so is not prejudicial to my client. In this case, however, it seems to me that this creditor is requesting information that they could easily obtain on their own, and I don't
want to encourage creditors to regularly make these kinds of requests of debtors' attorneys, so I am inclined to deny the request. On the other hand, I don't really want to be seen as uncooperative. Is this creditor request over the line? What are others
doing with these kinds of requests?
The post was migrated from Yahoo.