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Ch 13 -- Surrendering house -- paying HOA until =
Matt,
348a says the date for the order for relief does not change when the case is converted. It is odd, the section starts with conversion order for relief under new chapter, but then says the date for the order for relief does not change. So hoa dues after filing prob still nondischargeable.
Dennis McGoldrick
350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207B
Torrance, CA 90503
On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Matt Resnik wrote:
Just wondering...
Why not file a min percentage plan in a 13. Stay in the condo until a foreclosure sale has been posted....pay the HOA fees (or not) and once lender posted a TS, make sure the CLient knows you will convert to 7, any outstanding HOA fees up until then will be discharged, sale occurs and then the Client moves out prior to a UD?
"but nothing in this paragraph shall except from discharge.....assessment for a period arising before entry of the order for relief in a pending or subsequent case".....
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 11:41:11 AM
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Ch 13 -- Surrendering house -- paying HOA until transferred -- plan?
Thank you, Lou.
How do I make the plan when I do not know when the HOA payments will cease? Without knowing when, I cannot get a total amount to be paid over the lifetime of the plan.
I think the HOA payments are non-dischargable -- they arise monthly after filing? That is how I have seen them treated with Chapter 7 clients who did NOT pay them. Is something different with a Chapter 13?
My preference would have been to wait until after foreclosure to file, but sadly there were other issues that mandated we file and just deal!
1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
Pasadena, CA 91106
(626) 507-8090
"Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean slate."
"Like the witness protection program!"
"Exactly."
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:48 PM, californiadebtreliefagency wrote:
I believe the situation is similar to a car payment that terms out during a plan term. Consider the client's budget as a whole made up of parts, one of which is the HOA fees that term out during the plan, such that plan payment increases by the amount of the HOA fees that are no longer required to be paid.
Question though: are HOA fees due post petition in a Chapter 13 case necessary to be paid if property is being surrendered? Are they nondischargeable? Even if nondischargeable, Trustee may object to their continued payment as not necessary to preserve property of the estate.
Lou Esbin
>
> Hello all!
>
> I see there was a similar question recently but no HOA...so here goes.
>
> Client is surrendering a condo which he has already vacated. He is
> back with his wife and paying half the mortgage of her house.
>
> Because condo is still in his name, Client is still paying HOA fees
> for condo and will continue to do so until his name is off title.
>
> I put these HOA's on Schedule J and my client's proposed plan payment
> is going to be quite low, around $200. At some point in the future --
> but who knows when -- bank will take over home and he will quit paying
> those fees.
>
> How do I account for this in the plan, if at all?
>
> -- Amy Clark Kleinpeter
>
> 1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
> Pasadena, CA 91106
> (626) 507-8090
>
> "Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean slate."
>
> "Like the witness protection program!"
>
> "Exactly."
>
*****PLEASE NOTE - WE HAVE A NEW DOWNTOWN ADDRESS*****
Matthew D. Resnik
Attorney at Law
Los Angeles Office - Downtown
Simon and Resnik LLP
510 W. Sixth Street
Suite 1220
Los Angeles, Ca 90014
T:213-572-0800
F: 213-572-0860
Matt@resniklaw.com
www.simonresnik.com
San Fernando Valley - Sherman Oaks
Simon & Resnik, LLP
15233 Ventura Boulevard
Suite 300
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
P: 818-783-6251 #2
F: 818-827-4919
Matt,348a says the date for the order for relief does not change when the case is converted. It is odd, the section starts with conversion order for relief under new chapter, but then says the date for the order for relief does not change. So hoa dues after filing prob still nondischargeable. Dennis McGoldrick350 S. Crenshaw Bl., #A207BTorrance, CA 90503On Jan 4, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Matt Resnik <matt@simonresniklaw.com> wrote:
Just wondering...Why not file a min percentage plan in a 13. Stay in the condo until a foreclosure sale has been posted....pay the HOA fees (or not) and once lender posted a TS, make sure the CLient knows you will convert to 7, any outstanding HOA fees up until then will be discharged, sale occurs and then the Client moves out prior to a UD?"but nothing in this paragraph shall except from discharge.....assessment for a period arising before entry of the order for relief in a pendClark" <kleinpeterbk@gmail.com>To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, January 4, 2010 11:41:11 AMSubject: Re: [cdcbaa] Re: Ch 13 -- Surrendering house -- paying HOA until transferred --
plan?
Thank you, Lou.How do I make the plan when I do not know when the HOA payments will cease? Without knowing when, I cannot get a total amount to be paid over the lifetime of the plan.I think the HOA payments are non-dischargable -- they arise monthly after filing? That is how I have seen them treated with Chapter 7 clients who did NOT pay them. Is something different with a Chapter 13?
My preference would have been to wait until after foreclosure to file, but sadly there were other issues that mandated we file and just deal!-- Amy Clark Kleinpeter1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
Pasadena, CA 91106(626) 507-8090"Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean slate.""Like the witness protection program!""Exactly."
On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:48 PM, californiadebtreliefagency <Esbinlaw@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I believe the situation is similar to a car payment that terms out during a plan term. Consider the client's budget as a whole made up of parts, one of which is the HOA fees that term out during the plan, such that plan payment increases by the amount of the HOA fees that are no longer required to be paid.
Question though: are HOA fees due post petition in a Chapter 13 case necessary to be paid if property is being surrendered? Are they nondischargeable? Even if nondischargeable, Trustee may object to their continued payment as not necessary to preserve property of the estate.
Lou Esbin
@yahoogroups.com, Amy Clark <kleinpeterbk@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all!
>
> I see there was a similar question recently but no HOA...so here goes.
>
> Client is surrendering a condo which he has already vacated. He is
> back with his wife and paying half the mortgage of her house.
>
> Because condo is still in his name, Client is still paying HOA fees
> for condo and will continue to do so until his name is off title.
>
> I put these HOA's on Schedule J and my client's proposed plan payment
> is going to be quite low, around $200. At some point in the future --
> but who knows when -- bank will take over home and he will quit paying
> those fees.
>
> How do I account for this in the plan, if at all?
>
> -- Amy Clark Kleinpeter
>
> 1489 E. Colorado Blvd. #207
> Pasadena, CA 91106
> (626) 507-8090
>
> "Bankruptcy, Michael, is nature's do-over. It's a fresh start, a clean slate."
>
> "Like the witness protection program!"
>
> "Exactly."
>
-- *****PLEASE NOTE - WE HAVE A NEW DOWNTOWN ADDRESS*****Matthew D. ResnikAttorney at LawLos Angeles Office - DowntownSimon and Resnik LLP510 W. Sixth StreetSuite 1220Los Angeles, Ca 90014T:213-572-0800F: 213-572-0860Matt@resniklaw.comwww.simonresnik.comSan Fernando Valley - Sherman OaksSimon & Resnik, LLP15233 Ventura BoulevardSuite 300Sherman Oaks, CA 91403P: 818-783-6251 #2F: 818-827-4919
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