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Getting paid in chapter 11
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I hadnt realized beauty was part of the question, but I wont object to
that . . .
The chapter 11 was dismissed. Generally, though, the judge keeps
jurisdiction over a case after dismissal for purposes of final fee
applications; that happened here.
After discussing this with some of the more knowledgeable people here, I see
the way to do it: move to amend the order allowing fees (which is actually a
judgment, see FRBP 7054 and 9014) to include the principal of the
corporation. Dont worry about malpractice, as that was a compulsory
counterclaim to the fee application which hadnt been raised, so neither the
corp nor the principal may raise it now.
I dont know whether Id characterize the jurisdiction as pendent or
ther
proceed in USBC rather than state court, and not worry about the state
court-bankruptcy court interaction to the extent possible.
- John Faucher
On 2/18/10 12:37 PM, "robert90701@aol.com" wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> This is such an beautiful question I have to respond again.
>
> Let's answer these questions because they would be extremely beneficial.
>
> Is the C11 open or closed or dismissed? If not dismissed continue on.
> Does Bk Ct have exclusive jurisdiction?
> Does BK Ct have pendent jurisdiction? Arises out of the nucleus of facts?
> Is it one claim with two different theories of liability or two claims?
> Is there an advantage to filing in BK Ct or State court.
> Would BK Ct have to approve State Court judgment since C11 in effect?
> Is worse case scenario a Motion for Removal or Dismissal then file in state
> court?
>
> Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance with
>
> Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
> 17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
> Artesia, CA 90701
> 562-924-8922
>
> Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
> Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns,
> Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court Accountings
>
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Re: [cdcbaa] Getting paid in chapter 11
I hadn’t reali
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
This is such an beautiful question I have to respond again.
Let's answer these questions because they would be extremely beneficial.
Is the C11 open or closed or dismissed? If not dismissed continue on.
Does Bk Ct have exclusive jurisdiction?
Does BK Ct have pendent jurisdiction? Arises out of the nucleus of facts?
Is it one claim with two different theories of liability or two claims?
Is there an advantage to filing in BK Ct or State court.
Would BK Ct have to approve State Court judgment since C11 in effect?
Is worse case scenario a Motion for Removal or Dismissal then file in state
court?
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance
with
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns,
Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court Accountings
This is such an beautiful question I have to respond again.
Let's answer these questions because they would be extremely
beneficial.
Is the C11 open or closed or dismissed? If not dismissed continue
on.
Does Bk Ct have exclusive jurisdiction?
Does BK Ct have pendent jurisdiction? Arises out of the nucleus of
facts?
Is it one claim with two different theories of liability or two
claims?
Is there an advantage to filing in BK Ct or State court.
Would BK Ct have to approve State Court judgment since C11 in effect?
Is worse case scenario a Motion for Removal or Dismissal then file in state
court?
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance with
Robert J. Suhajda,
MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd.
#43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax
returns,
Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court
Accountings
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
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Cameron:
I have the same thoughts and have shared them with John.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Cameron Totten
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:35 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [cdcbaa] Getting paid in chapter 11
I don't see why you couldn't file an ap against the individual and prove up
the alter ego in the ap. Or get a judgment against the corp and move to add
the individual as an additional party to the judgment based on alter ego.
You could do that in state court so it seems like you should be able to do
it in bk court.
Cameron
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_____
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
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Respectfully, Steve's comments are not correct. I am happy to discuss the
matter with you at your convenience.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
Steven B. Lever
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:42 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [cdcbaa] Getting paid in chapter 11
John:
Your order approving fees only gives you the administrative claim in the
Chapter 11 case, or a subsequent conversion. I take it the 11 tanked and
you are owed fees without the 11 in existence.
You will need to sue the corporation and principal in state court to get a
judgment.
You will probably perform at least 3 or 4 thousand dollars of additional
work in an uncontested case and up to 10 or 15K in a contested collections
action. Then there are the costs of enforcing the judgment if there is no
easy pot of gold there. It seems a settlement is in order, and you need to
offer a steep discount now to the principal with the understanding that it
will not be available later if you have to sue.
Im not sure actions against the principal are also actions against the
client corporation.
Steve
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
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John:
Respectfully, I think you are going about this the wrong way. Please call
me to discuss the issues you have raised here because you are making extra
work for yourself.
David A. Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy Specialist*
Law Offices of David A. Tilem (a debt relief agency)
206 N. Jackson Street, #201, Glendale, CA 91206
Tel: 818-507-6000 Fax: 818-507-6800
* Bankruptcy specialist cert. by State Bar of CA Bd of Legal
Specialization.
John
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:23 PM
To: cdcbaa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cdcbaa] Getting paid in chapter 11
Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that
some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's also
a cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases.
I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a
corporation, and owes me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove
alter ego between the corp and its principal.
In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue her in
state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary of my
withdrawal from representation, so she can no longer file for malpractice).
Do I need to do anything further than getting the order in the bankruptcy
court before going to state court? Do I need to reduce the order to
judgment? If so, how?
- John Faucher
Hurlbett & Faucher
charset="windows-1251"
Message
John:
Respectfully, I think you
are going about this the wrong way. Please call me to discuss the issues
you have raised here because you are making extra work for
yourself.
David A.
Tilem
Certified Bankruptcy
Specialist*
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
charset="ISO-8859-1"
Hello Robert -
The corporation has no money left. My only avenue of payment is through the
principal, who was not a debtor. The bankruptcy court will have no
jurisdiction over her, and Ill need to prove alter ego to collect from her:
I dont see any way to bring this in an AP in the bankruptcy court.
To Mark Jessee and Steve Lever thanks for thinking of things I wasnt
thinking about.
- John Faucher
On 2/17/10 7:17 PM, "robert90701@aol.com" wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you have to go to state court? Why not an AP in BC? Isn't there SMJ and
> PJ in BC?
> Is there an advantage in state court in a prove up of a default or something
> like that?
>
> Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance with
>
> Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
> 17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
> Artesia, CA 90701
> 562-924-8922
>
> Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
> Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns,
> Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court Accountings
>
> In a message dated 2/17/2010 6:03:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that
>> some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's also a
>> cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases.
>>
>> I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a
>> corporation, and owes me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove
>> alter ego between the corp and its principal.
>>
>> In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue her in
>> state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary of my
>> withdrawal from representation, so she can no longer file for malpractice).
>> Do I need to do anything further than getting the order in the bankruptcy
>> court before going to state court? Do I need to reduce the order to
>> judgment? If so, how?
>>
>> - John Faucher
>> Hurlbett & Faucher
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> - John D. Faucher
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Re: [cdcbaa] Getting paid in chapter 11
Hello Robert -
The corporation has no money left. My only avenue of payment is through the principal, who was not a debtor. The bankruptcy court will have no jurisdiction over her, and I’ll need to prove alter ego to collect from her: I don’t see any way to bring this in an AP in the bankruptcy court.
To Mark Jessee and Steve Lever – thanks for thinking of things I wasn’t thinking about.
- John Faucher
On 2/17/10 7:17 PM, "robert90701@aol.com" <robert90701@aol.com> wrote:
Do you have to go to state court? Why not an AP in BC? Isn't there SMJ and PJ in BC?
Is there an advantage in state court in a prove up of a default or something like that?
Form a strategic alliance with
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns,
Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court Accountings
In a message dated 2/17/2010 6:03:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net writes:
Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's also a cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases.
I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a corporation, and owes me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove alter ego between the corp and its principal.
In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue her in state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary of my withdrawal from representation, so she can no longer file for malpractice). Do I need to do anything further than getting the order in the bankruptcy court before going to state court? Do I need to reduce the order to judgment? If so, how?
- John Faucher
Hurlbett & Faucher
- John D. Faucher
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
John:
Your order approving fees only gives you the administrative claim in the
Chapter 11 case, or a subsequent conversion. I take it the 11 tanked
and you are owed fees without the 11 in existence.
You will need to sue the corporation and principal in state court to get
a judgment.
You will probably perform at least 3 or 4 thousand dollars of
additional work in an uncontested case and up to 10 or 15K in a
contested collections action. Then there are the costs of enforcing the
judgment if there is no easy pot of gold there. It seems a settlement
is in order, and you need to offer a steep discount now to the principal
with the understanding that it will not be available later if you have
to sue.
I'm not sure actions against the principal are also actions against the
client corporation.
Steve
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Do you have to go to state court? Why not an AP in BC? Isn't there SMJ
and PJ in BC?
Is there an advantage in state court in a prove up of a default or
something like that?
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance
with
Robert J. Suhajda, MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd. #43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax returns,
Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court Accountings
In a message dated 2/17/2010 6:03:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net writes:
Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's
also a cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases.
I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a
corporation, and owes me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove
alter ego between the corp and its principal.
In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue herin state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary ofmy withdrawal from representation, so she can no longer file for
malpractice)In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue her
in state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary ofmy withdrawal fro
- John Faucher
Hurlbett & Faucher
Do you have to go to state court? Why not an AP in BC? Isn't
there SMJ and PJ in BC?
Is there an advantage in state court in a prove up of a default or
something like that?
Good Luck starts with a strategy and a plan. Form a strategic alliance with
Robert J. Suhajda,
MS,CPA
17721 Norwalk Blvd.
#43
Artesia, CA 90701
562-924-8922
Income Tax for Attorneys, Bankruptcy, IRS representation,
Fiduciary income tax returns, Estate and Gift tax
returns,
Trust Protector, Independent Trustee, Court
Accountings
In a message dated 2/17/2010 6:03:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
j.d.faucher@sbcglobal.net writes:
Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that
some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's also a
cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases. I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a corporation, and owes
me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove alter ego between the
corp and its principal. In order to chase down the principal for the
fees, I will need to sue her in state court (a suit I will file the day after
the year's anniversary of my withdrawal from representation, so she can no
longer file for malpractice). Do I need to do anything further than getting the order in the bankruptcy court before going to state court? Do I
need to reduce the order to judgment? If so, how? - John
FaucherHurlbett & Faucher
The post was migrated from Yahoo.
Okay, this isn't exactly a "consumer" issue, but I have the impression that some of the other practitioners here may have advice nonetheless. It's also a cautionary tale about taking on chapter 11 cases.
I have an order approving my fees in a chapter 11 case. The debtor is a corporation, and owes me some $25,000. I think I have enough facts to prove alter ego between the corp and its principal.
In order to chase down the principal for the fees, I will need to sue her in state court (a suit I will file the day after the year's anniversary of my withdrawal from representation, so she can no longer file for malpractice). Do I need to do anything further than getting the order in the bankruptcy court before going to state court? Do I need to reduce the order to judgment? If so, how?
- John Faucher
Hurlbett & Faucher
The post was migrated from Yahoo.